www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Vesper stikhera for September 21st

Looking ahead, since I have been asked about what the heck to do with the stikhera for Vespers on the 21st (New Calendar) here goes from my checking of several typikons.

This day is one of those rare liturgical convergences with the Apodosis of one of the 12 Great Feasts meets with Saturday evening Great Vespers. There are no stikhera for the saint as it is translated to the next evening because of the Apodosis.

At "Lord, I have cried...," four stichera are sung for the Resurrection from the Octoechos and six stichera are sung from the Menaion for the feast of the Exaltation.

These stichera are those that were sung previously on the feast itself (i.e., those in Tone 6).

What is a bit confusing is that on the feast of the Exaltation itself the first two stikhera are appointed to be taken three times apiece and the last one twice. Since only six are taken from the feast for the Apodosis all three are taken twice apiece rather than the first two repeated thrice.

On "Glory...," the sticheron of the
feast "O Come all ye peoples" in Tone 2 is sung, and on "Both now..." the dogmatikon is sung in the tone of the week.

For the Aposticha, four stichera of the resurrection are sung from the
Octoechos. On "Glory...Both now...," the sticheron of the feast "Today O Christ our God" in Tone 8 is sung.

If serving a vigil, after the Trisagion Prayers, "O Theotokos, Virgin, rejoice..." is sung twice, and the troparion of the Cross is sung once. If you are serving just Vespers alone, after the Trisagion Prayers, the troparion of the resurrection (in the tone of the week) is sung. After "Glory...Both now..." the troparion of the Cross is sung in Tone 1.

I *so* hope Anhelyna gets a look at this thread when she returns! I think she'll enjoy Diak's mini dissertation.

I'll be starting to push for Vespers at my parish soon. I've found a number of "sympathisers" (God bless and multiply vostochnyky!), and they all can sing as well!

Andrij

the dismissal apolytykia at vespers when served alone would be

sunday tropar -once
festal tropar -once
Glory...both now...
theotokion in the tone of the last tropar sung
i.e. for "O Lord, Save your people..." (tone 1) the theotokion would be "When Gabriel uttered to thee O Virgin his rejoice...)

same thing at "The Lord is God..", though you would take the tropar of the sunday twice as usual.

I am not sure about the aposticha but I think it is the same thing, glory... for the feast both now... corresponding tone theotokion, but I have to check on that one.

don't you have an "Order of Divine Services" from SJOK Press? That book is essential to every KLIROS (please note the correct spelling) . Unless of course you would rather take the sloth/ignorance is bliss line on the matter. (I am not directing this at you but am rather trying to make a point about how nobody [especially priests] now this stuff.) A great cheff knows all the recipies by heart.

Speaking of which, I found out that it is an ancient custom for orthodox that to be a bishop you must know the whole psalter by heart. At Matins the bishop would come to the middle of the temple, lean om his staff, and say the six-psalms by heart. Now that is cool.

gavshev

Is that still the case on the Otdanije of a feast?

Dave

GAVSHEV wrote:
and

I don't mean to embarrass you, but according to my copy of the Order of Divine Services , Diak had it exactly right.

Of course, I am hardly the one to talk. I was leading a Reader's Service this past Friday evening for our mission's (Holy Resurrection) patronal feast. Of course, it was also the forefeast of the Exaltation of the Cross. I remember getting in a jam at both the Aposticha of Vespers and the Canon of Matins, making my best guess and moving on. If it weren't a patronal feast, it would have been a walk in the park, but the patronal feast aspect made it more of a challenge.

-- Ed

Ed, welcome to the Byzantine liturgical world. And no need to be hard on yourself, you are doing just fine with your rubrics and services!

To correct the post above, it was mandatory to know the entire Psalter before monastic profession in many places in Sinai and Egypt, regardless of what became of the monk later (priest, deacon, bishop, or just monk). St. John Climacus gives a riveting story in the Ladder of a monk who recited the entire PSalter laying down on the floor in repentance.

Diak,

Since you are serving in one of Parma's churches, I would think you are obliged to follow the Ruthenian Pittsburgh Metropolia Typicon 2003 as compiled by Fr. David Petras.

What instructions does it give? Your answer should be given there.

Joe

Dear Diak,

Yes, it was mandatory for every monk to know the Psalms and one Gospel off by heart before tonsure!

It was almost "easy" to memorize the Psalms in the Thebaid since, following the Rule of St Pachomius, they recited 12 psalms at the beginning of every hour, day and night, so that the entire Psalter was prayed twice in 24 hours.

The Ethiopian Monks still follow this same rule (15 psalms are prayed for the first Hour and 15 for the last).

The Anglican Nicholas Ferrar at Little Gidding in the 17th century followed the same rule and everyone in his family knew the Psalms off by heart.

He also held special children's psalm recital sessions on Sundays and would give each child a penny for each Psalm learnt by heart.

The parents of the village were amazed at the spiritual renewal of their children and eagerly sent them to Ferrar for the weekly recitals.

The pocket money couldn't have been a problem either!

Alex

Especially in Egypt when Abba Moses the Robber turned all his spoils over to his monastery!

Ilya,

You state: "Unless of course you would rather take the sloth/ignorance is bliss line on the matter."

I take exception to this statement. Given that the Typicon is hopelessly complicated and this in itself is a contributing reason many parishes don't do the services, is it that big a deal if a priest/deacon/cantor justs opts to go with three stichera from the Octoechos/Triodion/Pentocostarion and three from the Menaion? I think the important thing is the services are done, not whether we have the Typicon prescribed balance of festal and octoechos stichera. Ignorance can be bliss and knowledge often increase sorrow but prayer offered from a humble and contrite heart is an acceptable sacrifice, whether it follows the Typicon to the letter or not.

In Christ,
Subdeacon Lance

Many parishes were doing without the services with or without a Typicon to spell it out for them. Everything was simple: just say Mass and be done with it.

Got a funeral? Say Mass.

Got a wedding? Say Mass.

Got a holy day? Say Mass, evening before included.

Got a Saturday evening service? Say Mass.

Got a Wednesday or Friday during the Great Fast? Say Mass.

Hopelessly complicated? Don't like to exercise the brain with all those stichera to manage and uneducated cantors? Say Mass instead. Do everything to one tone too.

Want to be different from the Orthodox? Say Mass.

Don't want to attempt reading the yearly typicon published by Fr. David Petras / Pittsburgh Metropolia? Buy a parakeet that answers all your liturgical questions with, "Say Mass."

Joe

Dear Cantor Joseph,

So someone who wants to bring back Eastern traditions might be seen as an "instrument of Mass destruction?"

Alex

Joe,

I did not say it was THE reason but a contributing reason. I also did not say replace it all with the Divine Liturgy or use only one tone. I am saying if one doesn't have the Typicon or is unsure how to combine things it is in my opinion okay to improvise. Take for example, the topic of this thread. I think it would be acceptable to take all seven Resurrectional stichera and the three for the Exaltation rather than what Subdeacon Randolph describes, not that he is wrong for recommending what the Typicon states. We need to exercise some common sense when dealing with people who do not have the level of training we do. Better to have the service deviate from the Typicon than not have any becasue the cantors are intimidated by the complexity or afraid of being castigated by the Typicon police.

In Christ,
Subdeacon Lance

Lance,

Actually, the Typicon Police is the protopresbyters. Really! Check Canon 278.3.

Anyway, since we no longer have full-time cantors who will learn the complexities of the Byzantine ordo, we should probably just chuck the Typicon altogether. But we do have clergy who attend many years of seminary training. One would think that the ignorance argument would not be appropriate here.

As for training, I am self-taught. Would you like my job cantoring? I need to find a replacement.

Joe,

I don't know about chucking the Typicon but producing a revised one that takes into consideration the average parish rather than the Monasteries of SS Sabbas or Theodore Studite would certainly be appropriate. New Skete has done this and while I don't want to adopt their particular practice (while simplified is still monastic) the idea of a simplified Typicon for parish use is a sound one I believe.

In Christ,
Subdeacon Lance