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Originally posted by FrDeaconEd:
Dear Dr. Alex:

Yes, there is a greater emphasis on Patristics these days. However, neither Thomistic nor Augustinian approaches are being abandoned. In fact, I suspect that under Pope Benedict XVI we will see an emphasis on Thomistic philosophy in priestly formation harkening back to the 40s and 50s when it was the philosophy of the Latin Church.

Fr. Deacon Edward

Originally posted by Dr. Michael Tkacz:
Also, what do you mean, Dr. Alex, by suggesting that St. Thomas should leave St. John of Damascus alone?

Dr. Michael

Originally posted by FrDeaconEd:
[qb] beng:

Just a quick claraification. Unam sanctam is a Papal Bull which is a disciplinary document. The pope's statement at the end of it is a summary of the discipline then found in the Western Church. Submission to the Pope was a requirement in his role as Patriarch of the West for those Catholics who are in the West.

If it were to be considered infallible (by the third form of infalliblity: that is, the extraordinary magisterium of the pope) it would mean that the second form of infallibility, an ecumenical council, was wrong. It would also mean that Pope Pius IX was wrong when he wrote about invincible ignorance.

Nope, not infallible, simply the discipline then in vogue in the Latin Church.

BTW, I'm also not going to allow us to dialog too much on this topic as it has nothing to do with the Byzantine forum in which we currently find ourselves.

Originally posted by Dr. Michael Tkacz:
Oxford philosopher Peter Geach tells the story of an English Roman prelate who expressed a wish that an infallible papal document might arrive for him to believe every morning before breakfast with "The Times". The same prelate is alleged to have said that, if the pope came out with a new decree approving artificial contraception, that he himself would pass from his present certainty that this practice is wrong to an equal certainty that it is not wrong.

Regardless of the authenticity of this story--Prof. Geach often enjoyed "pulling the legs" of his colleagues--it certainly illustrates the mistaken idea about papal infallibility common in our modern secular/Protestant society.

I believe that it is true that the Vatican Council Fathers intended to say that the pope is infallible in his person. I also hold that they intended this as perfectly consistent with the teaching and practice of the church from apostolic times. Basically, as has already been said, any bishop is infallible in his person, for it is the person who holds the office of the apostle. As has also already been said, the charism of infallibility has been given to the whole church by Christ. Thus, each one of us is infallible when we speak Christ. And, of course, all this must be understood as a matter of ontological participation in Christ's authority.

Yet none of this means that anyone, including the pope, is personally infallible. No one's whim is infallible, no one's authority is arbitrary. If the man who holds the office as pope were to utter heresy whether sitting in cathedra or not, he does not speak as the pope, but simply as a man who can, of course, be wrong. (Our Holy Father John of Damascus nicely illustrates the logical point, borrowed from Aristotle, by noting that the physician heals as physician, but drinks wine as a man who is accidently a physician. Just so, the heretical pope would be speaking as pope only accidently.)

If one looks at the matter in this light, then one can see that the Vatican Fathers are being perfectly consistent with the notion that the ordinary venue of doctrinal definition is the Ecumenical Council. Moreover, this is clearly the understanding that is behind Pope John Paul II's "Ut unum sint."

Dr. Michael Tkacz

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Dr. Ludwig Ott, P,285

7. The Nature of the Papal Primacy

1. Dogma

• The pope posseses full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, not merely in matters of faith and morals, but also in Church discipline and in the goverment of the Church. (De Fide.)

Against the various forms of Episcopalism, which limited the jurisdictive power of the Pope in favor of the Bishops (Conciliary Theory, Gallicanism, Febronianism), the Vatican Council declared: �If anyone shall say that the Roman Pontiff has the office merely of inspection and direction and not a full supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, not only in things which belong to faith and morals, but also in those which relate to the discipline and government of the Church spread through the world; or asssert that he possesess merely the principal part (potiores partes) and not the fullness of this supreme power; or that this power which he enjoys is not ordinary and immediate, both over each and all Churches, and over each and all the pastors of the faithful; let him be anathema� D1831. Cf. D 1827, CIC 218.

In consonance with this declaration, the Primatial power is:
a) A true power of jurisdiction that is, a true governing power, not merely a warrant of supervision or direction, such as, for example, belongs to the president of a political party, or a society, or of a conference. As a govermental power, it embraces the full power of legislation, administration of justice (disputed and voluntary jurisdiction) and of its execution. Corresponding to it on the part of the subjects is the duty of subordination and of obedience.
b)A universal power, that is, it extends personally to the pastors (bishops) and to the faithful, totally and individually, of the whole church. Materially it refers, not merely to matters of faith and morals (treaching office), but also to Church discipline and goverment (pastoral offive).
c)Supreme power in the Church, that is, there�s no jurisdiction possessing a greater or equally great power. The power of the Pope transcends both the power of each individual bishop and also of all the other bishops together. The bishops collectively (apart from the Pope), therefore, are not equal to or superior to the Pope.
d)A full power, that is, the Pope posses of himself alone, the whole fullness of the Church power of jurisdiction and not merely the greater share than the other bishops taken individually or conjointly. Thus the Pope can rule independently on any matter which come under the sphere of the Church�s jurisdiction without the concurence of the other bishops or of the rest of the Church.
e) An ordinary power, that is, it is connected with the office, by virtue of divine ordinance, and is not delegated from a higher possessor or jurisdiction. Thus it can be exercised at any time, i.e., not merely in exceptional cases, e.g., where the bishops neglect their pastoral duties in their territoris (Febronius, Eybel). D 1500.
f) A truly episcopal power, that is, the Pope is just as much a �universal bishop� of the whole Church, as he is bishop of his diocese of Rome (�Episcopus Urbis et Orbis� ; Jacob of Viterbo). Thus, the Papal power, like any other episcopal power, embraces the legislative, the juridicial and punitive power. Cf. CIC 218, Par 2 and 335).
g) An immediate power, that is, the Pope can exercise his power, without the intervention of an intermediary, over the bishops and the faithful of the whole Church.

2. Inference
a) It follows from the supreme governing power of the Pope over the whole Church that he has the right, in the exercise of his office, of coming into free contact with all the bishops and faithful of the whole Church. For this reason the Church rejects all attempts by the State to subject official intercourse with the Apostolic See to state control, and to make the juridicial obligation of papal decrees dependent on the cocurrence of the State authorities (placet). D 1829.
b)As the supreme lawgiver of the Church, the Pope is not legally bound by ecclesiastical decisions and usages, but by divine law alone. This demands that Papal power, in consonance with its purpose, should be employed for the building-up of the Mystical Body of Christ, not for its destruction (2 Cor. 10, 8). The divine law, therefore, is an efficacious brake on arbitrariness. The third Gallican article, which demanded a far reaching limitation of the exercise of the Papal power, was properly rejected. D 1324.
c) As supreme judge of the Church, the Pope has the right of bringing every Church law-matter before his court, and to receive appeals in all Church disputes. He himself is judged by nobody (CIC 1556; prima sedes a nemine iudicator), because there�s no higher judge on Earth than he. For the same reason there�s no appeal to a higher court against the judgment of the Pope. The Church rejects an appeal from the Pope to General Council as this would mean putting General Council above the Pope. D 1830; CIC 228, Par. 2. Cf. D 1323 (22nd Gallican Article).

Originally posted by Dr. Michael Tkacz:
Mr. Thur:

Thanks for the reply. I am afraid that I do not find your suggestion of tracking down and reading more than 1600 postings very helpful. It would take a great deal of time and effort. Perhaps that only means that this may not be the best forum for such a discussion.

Let me just say that, having taught and published on medieval philosophy for nearly twenty years, I find much in common in the thought of St. Thomas and St. John.

Dr. Michael