www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Some questions on Orthodox Liturgical practice

Dear Friends,

I was at an OCA parish for an ordination yesterday . . .

I saw people go to confession by approaching a stand with an icon and a Cross and bowing down with their faces toward it as the priest covered their heads and then leaned toward them to hear their sins.

Could anyone elaborate on this rite?

In the middle of the Church was a square, upraised place - is this the ambon or what? Sometimes the priests came out and walked around it etc.

The Bishop seemed to use the Trikeri and Dikeri more frequently than I've ever seen one of our own bishops use them - could anyone comment here as well?

Finally, the Bishop had a total of THREE of those special episcopal rugs with the eagle on them in descending order from the Altar - why three?

And Vladyka made it a point to say that the people should be standing right up near the iconostasis - how close should we be?

Alex

Christ is Risen!

Confession is usually given at an "analoy" (icon stand) on which is placed a gospel and/or icon and a cross. The rubrics for confession prescribe these basic necessities, and the prayers also reference them. ("Behold, His icon is before us...") Whether confession be given at an analoy or a small desk or table, the idea is that these items are placed on it and the confession is heard there.

Regarding the platform for the bishop, this is only used when the bishop is present. He always begins the Liturgy (or most any service) in the middle of the Church, in the midst of the people. Liturgical scholars acknowledge that this is the most ancient practice. The platform itself is probably reminiscent of the "bema" which unlike todays ambo (amvon) extended out into the middle of the Church. This is standard Russian practice. (Our bishop does not use it because he has an inner-ear problem which makes it difficult for him to stand on a raised platform.)

Trikeri and Dikeri, again, standard Russian practice. At the end of vesting, little entrance, Holy God, after the Great Entrance and after communion they are used by the bishop, maybe a few other times I'm forgetting. Otherwise, they are placed behind the altar table. Sometimes they are also carried in procession when the bishop is present at various times. People that clean wax off the floor just love them.

Regarding the "orletsi" (eagle rugs) they are a sign of the episcopal protection over a city or region (hence the depiction of the eagle over a walled-in city). The number used is not significant, but more for convenience, so they can stay one step ahead of the bishop. They are ususally placed at common places where the bishop stands... in the middle of the church, at the ambvon, altar, high place, etc... A good sub-deacon seems to make them appear out of nowhere.

Regarding standing near the iconostas, I'm sure that this was his way of getting people closer to the altar (that is, up front), because people tend to gravitate toward the back of the church.

I hope your experience was a good one.

Priest Thomas

Alex,

At our (Byzantine, nominally Ruthenian Catholic) parish, confessions are also heard at a "stand" - actually a lectern with a Gospel book & cross on it (the yardsticks by which we are to measure ourselves) to the right of the iconostasis as you face it. There is an icon of Christ in front of the stand too.

This is a matter of architecture - at our parish there are three narrow steps in front of the iconostasis - plenty of room for a candlestick, but not enough for two humans - so confessions can't be heard before the icon of Christ.

The only difference I'd note is that at our church, the priest doesn't cover the penitent until he gives absolution - but I've seen it the way you describe elsewhere.

Cheers,

Sharon

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas!

Thank you for your comprehensive response - as always!

Yes, I came from that experience walking on cloud nine - and I'm still on it!

Vladyka Seraphim is SUCH a wonderful man and bishop!

His priests, and there were about 15 of them, clearly esteem and love him highly - as he does them.

A truly Apostolic Man of God, I got a sense that he knows the "essence" of Christianity, and that everything in the Orthodox Church refers back to that essence.

I hope that one day you get to meet my newly ordained friend, Fr. Geoffrey Korz one day and that your paths will cross!

You would like him - as he would you!

I've written up my reflections on yesterday on a thread in the Town Hall which I invite you to have a look at when you have a moment, Father.

I was in tears for my newly ordained friend - I know how much he went through to see his ordination day.

His pectoral Cross is beautiful - he would have to wear it always, would he not?

He told me he wants to wear a riassa at all times throughout each and every day - is this a common practice in the OCA? He is quite traditional!

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

Dear Sharon,

Nominal or not, but you Ruthenians know what you are doing!!

Alex

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas!

How should one stand in an Orthodox Church, with arms folded in an X-Cross, or with the hands down at the sides?

Alex

May the Lord God bless you!

A priest always wears the pectoral cross, in the Russian tradition. However, the rank of the priest is somewhat indicated by the cross - silver for priest, gold for an archpriest, and then there is the jeweled cross. What is more confusing is that your cross can be silver in color, but be a gold cross because it only has the single bar (four pointed cross) instead of the three bar cross (eight pointed cross). And it can be a jeweled cross with no jewels (indicated by the "crown" at the top of the cross! So for now, he will wear the silver, eight pointed (three bar) cross.

The guidelines of the OCA indicate that clergy should be dressed as a priest at all times while in public. (In fact, you sign a promise to do so, as well as other promises you take before your ordination. Ask your new priest-friend.) Traditional Orthodox clerical wear is the cassock/riassa. However, some clergy wear the Roman collar, which was very common in the 20th century among OCA (Metropolia) priests, but there seems to be a backlash of traditionalism today. Many priests in Canada, and the Western and Southern US wear cassocks/riassas as a matter of course. I always wear one around the church (unless I'm painting or something) and to the hospitals and home visits. No, I do not wear one at home, although frequently I will wear one driving to or from church. I normally do not go to the supermarket with one on, although I have done so, and to the gas station, especially on my way to and from church. You get some strange stares (especially if you're holding your wife's hand!), but others seem to respect it and will even come up and ask you questions about religion, etc... It's a bit more difficult here, than in a traditional Orthodox land like Russia or Greece. When I was in Russia last year, I wore my riassa everywhere - it's no big deal there. I might also say that I rarely wear a collar, but even wore one last week! They are unbelievably uncomfortable, and then there's the whole, "this is not our tradition" thing....

This brings up an interesting question which maybe is more appropriate in another thread. I rarely see priests in collars in public anymore (Roman or otherwise). As I've said, I've worn a cassock to various public places. I've only seen one Roman priest (he looked like a traditionalist) in Sams Club wear a cassock in my life. Other than that, I rarely even see collars anymore. Why do you think that is the case?

Priest Thomas

At the sides is normal, although admittedly there is no "official posture." Only Old Believers take such a posture of crossing their arms across their waist as a matter of practice.

PT

Bless me a sinner, Father Thomas,

I forgot to wish you a happy Namesday yesterday - but I've made up for it in the Prayer Thread!

(Unless you celebrate another day for St Thomas?)

The Romans just don't like wearing their collars any more, and I think it is because they want to be like "one of the people."

During the papal visit here, there was a Jesuit who was a TV commentator and he simply wore a tie with some "Crosses" depicted on it (you had to look closely at it to see them though).

I don't like the modern RC attitude and the Orthodox traditional attitude (let's leave the Antiochians out of this for now ) is the way things should be.

We had a visiting Orthodox bishop here at the legislature where I work and everyone, including many RC's were thrilled at the sight of him. Many RC's asked for his blessing, came up to greet him with smiles and just loved him to death!!

The ryassa is much more elegant (if I may say so) and spiritually relevant than the collar.

The pectoral Cross - now that is 33 inches long in accordance with the years of Our Lord's Life on earth, is it not? I've measured a few and I have my departed grandfather's old pectoral Cross that is 33 inches.

My grandfather was an Orthodox priest for 20 years under the Soviets and received his cross for completing the building of an Orthodox Church in his Ukrainian village.

It has jewels on it on the four arms - it is a four pointed Cross.

Could you tell me, Father, what this Cross signifies then?

Was it an honour bestowed on my grandfather?

I must say that there is NOTHING more spiritually dignified than an Orthodox priest in a ryassa with his long pectoral Cross and prayer rope around his wrist!!

Alex

Yes, absolutely, the jeweled cross is one of the highest honors that can be bestowed upon a priest. In the Russian Orthodox Church, the there are a few others, like the Mitre, and double pectoral cross (the OCA does not bestow these last few honors anymore). My grandfather was a mitred archpriest.

As to why the four pointed cross is a higher honor than the eight pointed cross - it's anyone's guess, and I'm sure someone well versed in such liturgical minutae has the reason.

Speaking of the chain, I'm not sure about the length. I've heard this, but can't verify it.

There are other little items of interest that you may want to know. The little length of chain that hangs down the back of a priest's pectoral cross chain is not by accident, but by design. This is supposed to be a sign of the "grace of the priesthood," as well as the additional length of ribbon or galoon that is sewn about six inches from the bottom of the epitrachelion (stole) and phelon. This is also a sign of the grace of the priesthood. Deacons do not have this on their orarion or sticharion (or, at least, they're not supposed to).

Priest Thomas

Bless me a sinner, Reverend Father,

Thank you for your informative response!

I will treasure that Cross always as a memento of my grandfather!

According to Met.Ilarion Ohienko, the one-bar Cross was used in the Kyivan Church as a way to signify priests of a higher rank - perhaps owing to the fact that everyone wore a three-bar Cross (?).

I like the three-bar Cross so much that, were I an Orthodox priest, I'd resist promotion so I could continue to wear it!

Alex

I'm with you, Alex. It would be tough to give up the three-bar Cross. Talking about Roman collars, I have even seen the Antiochian Orthodox Metropolitan Philip Saliba in public more than once with a Roman or white Anglican-style collar and no riassa.

Since we are not Romans, I have never seen the use of wearing Roman collars. The Russians have nice off-center black shirts that priests can wear when not in the riassa, and the Greeks have some that button up the front with a single button ring-collar, all black.

With regard to the orletsi at hierarchical services, the usage as I serve as subdeacon is to have one orlets placed in line with the center of the Holy Table in front of the Holy Doors on the Ambo; one in front of the solea at the base of the steps; one in the center of the episcopal ambo/bema; one at the narthex when the bishop enters and is greeted. These are usually the minimum (four).

Ideally it is good to have three in a line on the ambo, one in front of the icon of the Theotokos, one in front of the icon of the Savior, in line with the one already mentioned in front of the altar before the Holy Doors. The last should be placed at the foot of the bishop's throne at the High Place inside the altar for a total of seven orletsi.

But most parishes and even cathedrals don't have seven and have subdeacons or servers end up doing some "liturgical carpet laying" An orlets is moved over to the Proskomidia table before the Great Entrance and the orlets from the Narthex is usually taken up to be used somewhere else after the bishop has moved from the narthex to the episcopal ambo to vest.

Alex, did the bishop use the tall dikerotrikery candles (hopefully beeswax?) Those are the only way to go.

Actually, the "Roman" collar is an English invention for clergy developed in the 19th Century. My suspicion was that since most CoE clergy were of the 'protestant' persuasion, the developing "Anglican" "English Catholic" clergy wanted something more than just ordinary street attire but did not want to wear a "dress" in public. Hence, the top part of a cassock fitted into a shirt. (Interestingly enough, in Germany the priest wears either the 'talar' (=cassock) or a dark suit with white shirt and modest tie.)

Some religious brothers have a black 'rabat' (fitted front-piece) that covers the ordinary white shirt and allows the ordinary collar points to be visible. I believe that the French do the same thing or something quite similar.

Christ is Risen!

Christ is risen!

In Byzantine Catholic monasticism, do abbots ever have the use of episcopal insignia or priviliges, such as the mitre, trikirodikerion, greeting with bells, tonsuring readers and subdeacons etc.?

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and siner.

Dear Diak,

Yes, that is exactly how the orletsi were laid out for Vladyka Seraphim, three that I could see but perhaps there were four.

Yes, he used the tall dykerii with beeswax candles.

One could purchase lots of beeswax candles in the back of the church and people were bringing in armfuls!

Alex