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Is anyone here surprised?

The last sentence in the article is the most idiotic from the perspectives of both ancient and recent history

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"Eucharistic bi-ritualism in the Latin Catholic Church contradicts what the Eucharist signifies."
As if anyone can predict the latest trendy nonsense that will be thrust upon them in any parish that "follows" the ordo of Paul VI! :rolleyes:

I seriously doubt these hierarchs give a &#^% (pardon my French! wink ) about unity in liturgical practice. I think they are just upset that the Tridentine does not permit liturgical tinkering.

Clearly they have no solid grounds to deny authentic liturgical diversity in the West, and I'm sure that our German Shepherd sees right through the French reddition to modernism.

Sans reddition! mad

There... now I feel better.

Au revoir! cool

Gordo

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French clerics oppose restoration of Latin Mass

Oct. 24 (CWNews.com) - French clerics are leading the opposition to release of a papal document that would allow wider use of the traditional Latin Mass.

A group of 35 French bishops and priests have issued a statement urging Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) not to issue the motu proprio that has been widely discussed in recent weeks. The clerics predict that by allowing broader use of the Tridentine rite, the papal document would "plunge us back into the liturgical life of another age."

Infocatholo, the news agency sponsored by the French bishops' conference, reports that the papal document has been edited and is ready for release. But the bishops' news agency says that there is strong opposition to the proposed move within the Roman Curia.

The opposition is particularly evident among French bishops, many of whom have given clear public indications of their hostility toward the papal initiative. Bishop Robert Le Gall of Toulouse told the daily La Croix that permission to use the Latin Mass would "create grave difficulties, especially for those who have remained loyal to Vatican II." Sounding the same theme, Bishop Andre Lacrampe of Besan�on said that "one cannot erase Vatican II with a stroke of the pen."

Opponents of the Latin Mass have based their arguments on the premise that the Pope's proposal would be designed to encourage members of the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) to return to communion with the Holy See. Bishop Claude Dagens of Angouleme told the weekly La Vie that a change in liturgical discipline would not achieve that result. He explained, "You can't pretend that Archbishop Lefebvre's break with the Church was caused only by the liturgy."

But other French bishops objected to use of the old liturgical rite by priests who have left the SSPX, to set up the new Institute of the Good Shepherd. Archbishop Andre Vingt-Trois of Paris complained that the new Institute, with Vatican approval, has already begun work in the Paris archdiocese. And Bishop Michel Pansard of Chartres said that he was "astonished" to learn that the traditionalist group was opening a seminary without first consulting him.

Infocatho, the bishops' new agency, gave a clear indication of its own perspective in the news report on the French clerics' complaints. The adoption of a policy allowing free use of either the Tridentine liturgy or the post-conciliar Novus Ordo, Infocatho said, would divide the Church, because "Eucharistic bi-ritualism in the Latin Catholic Church contradicts what the Eucharist signifies."

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Other reports from the French opposition to the proposed motu proprio quote these opponents as saying that not only would the permission for the Roman Mass be a disaster, but such celebrations of the Roman Mass would not attract many people.

Now there is a point to ponder. If almost no one is likely to attend such a service, why does the prospect of allowing the service to take place send the French opposition into a panic?

Put simply, the very idea that anyone, anywhere, is allowed to have That Mass causes an irrational scream of horror.

Personally, I'm quite happy with the Divine Liturgy and have no particular wish to attend the Roman Mass. I simply believe that those who do wish that form of Mass should in justice be provided for. If the Catholic Church can survive with three parallel forms of the West Syrian Liturgy (Maronite, Syro-Malankarese, and Syrian Catholic), why should having two forms of the Roman Liturgy be a problem?

Fr. Serge

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Father Serge,

I agree. I attended the Tridentine Mass several times over the years and, while I loved the solemnity, would never exchange it for the Glory of Byzantium! biggrin

Even a stumbling humble Divine Liturgy of the most remote Byzantine country parish beats the most glorious of the Latin Cathedral Liturgies...IMHO! Which is why, I suppose, I am a Greek-Catholic.

Gordo

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I thought no one in France went to Mass anyway.

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The rot of modernist thinking took hold in French seminaries long before it metastisized elsewhere. It only makes sense that the Lefebvrist movement began in France, because many of the "pioneer" modernists afflicting Catholicism were French (Loisy, Chardin, etc.). Before the split, Archbishop Marcel's greatest enemies were Frenchmen in high ecclesiatical positions (including Paul VI's Secretary of State, whose name I forget at this moment).

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The French Catholic Bishops are in Conference in Lourdes from Nov 5th to the 10th biggrin Hopefully there should be more information from them after that .


Guess who will also be there then :p

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Ambrosian, Mozarabic, Sarum Use, Carthusian, Carmelite, Tridentine-Roman (and now Pauline-Roman)...there has never been uniformity of Rite in the Latin Church.

These people are really running out of excuses when they have to come up with this stuff!

Logos Teen

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Did anyone really expect anything else from the progressive majority in France ?

james

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A close friend who will here be nameless also headed for the Byzantine East in the later ninetee-fifties. For a variety of reasons, he was much more bitter than I was, and did not darken the door of a Roman Catholic Church unless he absolutely had to, which was not often.

But then a priest we had both known died in 1969, and my friend felt that he really should go to the Mass. He left the church after the Mass in a state of complete shock and telephoned me at once to ask "What is that thing they're doing?" Time has not healed the horror so far as he's concerned (we're still in touch).

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What are these French bishops complaining about? Wasn't the Gallican Rite being practiced in the Latin Catholic Churches of France while the Mozarabic in Spain, the Ambrosian in Milan, and the Roman in Rome?

Is it a case of pretending as if that never occurred to gain some political ground... or are the bishops simply ignorant of history?

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Quote
Originally posted by Serge Keleher:
A close friend who will here be nameless also headed for the Byzantine East in the later ninetee-fifties. For a variety of reasons, he was much more bitter than I was, and did not darken the door of a Roman Catholic Church unless he absolutely had to, which was not often.

But then a priest we had both known died in 1969, and my friend felt that he really should go to the Mass. He left the church after the Mass in a state of complete shock and telephoned me at once to ask "What is that thing they're doing?" Time has not healed the horror so far as he's concerned (we're still in touch).

Fr. Serge
Fr. Serge,

Boy, can I relate to what you are writing. In my case, I'm 55 yrs. old. I was raised in the Roman Church, and educated in a Catholic grammar school up thru 1965. Religious education was very orthodox. I went to a Catholic "prep" high school run by the Brothers of the Sacred Heart, who originated in France. They, in turn, were educated by the Jesuits. Needless to say, when the "wheels began to come off" the American church, I was in the middle of my high school days, and observed Jesuit- influenced "progressivism" at it's worst. I was repulsed by the abominations that were being called Liturgy. I also was in a state of shock at the wholesale destruction being wrought in religious education- we were having Chardin, Schillebeecx, Charles Curran, and all of the other heretics (at least that is how one of the older Brothers referred to them) shoved down our throats. Several of my friends at that school were cradle Greek Catholics. I expressed my dismay to one of them. He responded: "come to our church-our clergy are still sane". I followed that advice, and I'm thrilled that I did. Whenever I have to go back to an RC church, I usually find it to be dry, at best, but usually unbearable, especially considering the maudlin, pedestrian music, and the disconnected, improvising, liturgical antics. I remember reading a comment of yours to the effect that, prior to Vatican II, the western Liturgy was in a state of rigidity (or did you say rigor mortis?), whereas, after Vatican II, it is in a state of decomposition. I absolutely concur with that sentiment.

In Christ,
Dn. Robert

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Deacon Robert,

You and I have a common ground...

"In my case, I'm 55 yrs. old. I was raised in the Roman Church, and educated in a Catholic grammar school up thru 1965. Religious education was very orthodox" ditto I say...but I'm staying around to "finish the good race", of course God willing and will continue my unofficial Eastern associations...which I have learned to treasure.

james

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Quote
Originally posted by Jakub.:
Deacon Robert,

You and I have a common ground...

"In my case, I'm 55 yrs. old. I was raised in the Roman Church, and educated in a Catholic grammar school up thru 1965. Religious education was very orthodox" ditto I say...but I'm staying around to "finish the good race", of course God willing and will continue my unofficial Eastern associations...which I have learned to treasure.

james
James,

Actually, while I began attending Eastern churches consistently in 1969 (immediately upon promulgation of Novus Ordo), I remained officially RC for years thereafter. I officially "changed Rites" in 1985. By that time, I was already married for 6 years, and made the decision to formally change for practical reasons. If we were attending Eastern churches, and if kids were to come along (they did), then we didn't want to have legalistic "hoops" to jump through in order to get our kids Baptized/initiated. Later on, I was recruited into catechising, cantoring, and ordination to Diaconate. I feel so strongly about the horrors inflicted upon the Western Church, that I cannot bear to watch the process (hopefully, this process is being reversed). I compare it to seeing one's mother in a state of drunkenness. Sounds harsh, but it's how I see things in the Western Church when I make comparisons with the past.

In Christ,
Dn. Robert

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It continues...

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FRENCH BISHOPS PRESS THEIR CASE WITH POPE

Oct. 26 (CWNews.com) - The president of the French bishops' conference is in Rome this week, meeting with Vatican officials to discuss relations with traditionalist Catholics and the prospects for a new document allowing broader use of the Latin Mass.

Cardinal Jean-Pierre Ricard of Bordeaux met with Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) in a private audience on October 26. Earlier in the month he had said, in an editorial published in his archdiocesan newspaper, that he planned to travel to Rome to ask for "completementary information" about the Vatican's approval of a new traditionalist religious group, the Institute of the Good Shepherd.

The French hierarchy has reacted nervously to the reports that Pope Benedict will soon release a motu proprio giving permission for all priests to use the Tridentine liturgy. Several French bishops have indicated that they would see that initiative as an effort to appeal to members of the traditionalist Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), which is particularly active in France. The recognition of the Institue of the Good Shepherd-- a group composed of priests who have left the SSPX-- has evidently fueled the French bishops' worries.

After his meeting with the Pontiff, Cardinal Ricard told the I Media news agency that he spoke about "the French situation." Informed sources reported that the French prelate had also spoken with officials of several Vatican dicateries.

Cardinal Jean-Marie Lustiger, the retired Archbishop of Paris, also met with Pope Benedict XVI, in a private audience on October 23. Archbishop Andre Vingt-Trois, the current head of the Paris archdiocese, has also been in Rome this week. Archbishop Vingt-Trois also reportedly met with the Pope, although that private meeting-- unlike the sessions with Cardinals Lustiger and Ricard-- did not appear on the Pope's official schedule.

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My new signature line sums up my feelings, perpetual light shine upon him !!!!!!

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