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The Crisis: The Freeing Up of the Roman Rite is Imminent Posted by: Admin on Monday, October 02, 2006 - 04:42 PM The Catholic Church From http://archivum.ilcannocchiale.it/ (translated) The Freeing Up of the Roman Rite is Imminent As it had been already anticipated months ago by the Archivum Liturgicum, in a few weeks the Holy Father will promulgate the document freeing the Roman Liturgy. Numerous informed sources had confirmed the date of publication of the decree as November. As far as we know, the content of the document would deal with the total freeing up of the Tridentine Rite, according to the Rubrics of 1962--placing it side by side with the Novus Ordo; the new liturgy would be defined as the "ordinary rite" while the traditional rite would be known as the "extraordinary rite", without any limitation on the celebration on the part of any Catholic priest. It seems that the decree, already signed by the Holy Father at the beginning of September, explicitly notes the hope that the main churches will celebrate at least one Sunday Tridentine Mass. If what is being said in the Roman Curia comes to fruition...this freeing of the Mass will represent one of the more important actions of the pontificate of Benedict XVI including the Papal celebrations of the Mass... Edit/Delete Message
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I am so sick of these rumors! I will believe it when I see it. Forgive me if I sound harsh but there have been so many rumors about this issue.
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Sorry to perhaps beat a dead horse. Just posted to see if anyone else had heard this one.
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Yeah, I agree with the above posters! I'll believe it when I see it though...okay, I'm sorry to add rumors...but I've been hearing a lot about this. Anyway, all we need to do is pray for the Holy Father! Say a Rosary for his intentions and safety, especially in Turkey. And let's not jinx this by talking about the TLM further!  Logos Teen
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I suppose someone has to ask the question as we specialise in the Eastern Rites here, what will be the implications for us?
It has been said that if the so called Latin rite traditionalists get their own way, then some of our churches will be impacted upon.
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Originally posted by Pavel Ivanovich:
I suppose someone has to ask the question as we specialise in the Eastern Rites here, what will be the implications for us?
It has been said that if the so called Latin rite traditionalists get their own way, then some of our churches will be impacted upon. Pavel, If by that you mean that we shall lose, in a return to the Latin Church, those Latin Catholics who came to us solely because of an aversion to the Mass of Paul VI or Ordo Missae, then I say "so be it". Our Churches should need and want and welcome those who are running to the East, not those who are running from the West. As a cradle Latin who embraced the East 4 decades ago from a love of the spirituality that I felt here, I have small patience with those who are here (in the Eastern Churches) solely because: - our Liturgies are chanted,
- even in English - our liturgical language is one of elegance,
- the vesture of our clergy is resplendent,
- our temples are pretty and smell like Latin churches used to smell
while bemoaning the fact that we don't have Benediction, Eucharistic Adoration, Stations of the Cross, Rosary before "Mass". Particularly when those espousing such thoughts aren't old enough to truly know of what they speak vis-a-vis "what church used to be like". To repeat something that I have said before, both here and elsewhere in response to those whose advice to unhappy Latins was to go East: The Eastern Churches do not exist to be a haven for or an escapist venue for Catholics of the Latin Church who don't like the theological presentations of their own Church or its liturgical forms. We appreciate interest in our Churches and in our liturgical traditions, but the Eastern Churches want to and must be understood and appreciated for themselves, not as an antidote to what disaffected Latins perceive as wrong in their own Church. The Novus Ordo Mass is neither less authentic nor holy than the Tridentine Mass; each, as a service of worship directed to God, has its own intrinsic holiness when served faithfully and reverently. To the extent that abuses exist within either, they must needs be addressed; but the form is only that - an external; ultimately, worship comes from within oneself, one's heart and soul. And, from comments I made a bit more than a year ago on this forum, in reply to a similar thread: I appreciate interest in what His Holiness may or may not do vis-a-vis the Tridentine and Novus Ordo forms of celebrating the Mass and understand that a news item on this topic is a legitimate posting ... Certainly, there is relevance in knowing what is happening in our Sister Church, especially when rumors abound with regard to potential changes in the Liturgy of one of our own Churches.
However, ... (t)here are countless Latin boards out there with thousands of posters anxious to discuss, dissect, agonize, and hypothesize on the possibilities. This site, blessedly, exists for the meritorious purposes of understanding, exploring, discussing, debating, educating, and being educated about the Eastern and Oriental Churches, Catholic and Orthodox. In that, it is, as we have noted previously, pretty much unique and does what it does rather well, not perfectly, but far better than any other claiming to be of this ilk.
May I suggest that those feeling a need to further pursue this topic take it to a more appropriate venue? I loved the Tridentine Mass, respect the Novus Ordo as a legitimate and holy celebration of the Sacrifice, and wish only the best for my Latin brothers and sisters in resolving the liturgical concerns that endlessly appear to afflict their Church; but, as an Eastern Christian, my own spirituality is not intrinsically tied to their resolution of these issues.
I will pray for them, but if I want to see 4 pages of thread on a topic such as this, I go to Catholic Answers or elsewhere. As I don't expect the Tridentine or Novus Ordo Masses to be celebrated in my temple, I don't expect their history, form, validity, or future to be debated or decided in our sanctum. A bit harsh perhaps, but I meant it then and believe it now. Those Latins who have been biding their time in our temples until the return of the Tridentine Mass as the normative form will certainly be welcomed back, with smiles and embraces, to the Annual Food Fair to indulge their new-found liking for fataya, kibbee, pirohi, holupka, yalanchi, whatever. Many years, Neil, who gets feisty, if not outright cranky, on this subject
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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The thought of having one Tridentine Mass (in Latin, presumably) every Sunday in the average parish church frightens me. Who is supposed to celebrate? By now the large majority of priests have no training in the celebration of the Tridentine Mass and don't know enough Latin to understand the Ave Maria.
Fr. Serge
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By now the large majority of priests have no training in the celebration of the Tridentine Mass and don't know enough Latin to understand the Ave Maria. Hmmmm....That certainly sounds like that might turn out to be a problem!!! Alice
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Fr. Serge,
Wouldn't the Bishop tell priest unless you have had training, etc...
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Once again I'm happy to see that posts and threads about traditionalism outside Byzantium, in the rest of the church, aren't shouted down any more.
Regarding the latest rumour, what Michael_Thoma said.
Rude and stupid traditionalists who want to latinise you are part of the mythology of this board. I'm sure such exist but like 'clown Masses' are a much overused rhetorical device. I imagine traditionalist refugees are seen as an embarassment to be barely put up with (after all their money is as good as anybody else's); they get in the way of BCs being seen as cool, spiritual and ecumenical by the 'Oh, I love icons' churchy mainstream.
(I'm as against latinisation, old or new, as anybody else here.)
I've said for some time that the RCs would have been smart, as well as orthodox and 'pastoral' (that is, at least nice enough to be patronising), to do what the Episcopal Church did by creating 'Rite I' (traditional worship at least based on the old book) and having it at 'the eight o'clock service'. Granted the Irish-Americans' religious culture is one of uniformity (and of the parish as a Mass factory) but having one old Mass at least weekly in the parishes still would have been a smart move and very doable in 1970, more so practically than now as Fr Serge notes. (Back then all RC priests knew how to do it.)
(And now there are the politically correct speciality Masses in the Novus Ordo: Masses for blacks and other ethnic groups including foreign-language Masses, youth Masses, etc., so the argumentum ad uniformitatem is right out if one is being logical.)
That said, there are many young priests who'd like to learn this Mass and who would love using it as an early service.
The powers that be, 'spirit o'Vatican II' types, either of the generation that started that or the boomers who followed them, don't want it for many of the same reasons they don't want the Anglican Use. (Ick, it's, like, so Catholic.)
Thomas Day has explained these people.
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Would a priest need permission to say the Mass in English, or is that a given since nothing is changed, added, or deleted only translated?
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Michael,
Are you asking whether a priest would need permission to celebrate the TLM in English?
In that case, no, because the rubrics themselves prohibit celebrating the Mass in any language but Latin*. A Bishop would thus have no authority to allow a priest to celebrate a TLM in anything other than Latin.
Logos Teen
*what was that one exception? I always want to say Slovenian but maybe it was Slavonic or Croatian? In any case, there was one language prior to the Pauline Mass reforms that allowed the TLM to be celebrated in that one language.
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It was Slavonic and I think in Glagolitic script, not Cyrillic or Latin.
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Originally posted by The young fogey:
It was Slavonic and I think in Glagolitic script, not Cyrillic or Latin. Serge is correct, it is often referred to, erroneously, as the Glagolitic Mass. Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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