|
2 members (melkman2, 1 invisible),
150
guests, and
20
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,219
Posts415,295
Members5,881
| |
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 478
Member
|
OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 478 |
Hello all,
This Sunday my family plans on going to a Melkite Church for Sunday Liturgy. My young children are quite excited, as I told them we are going to a "church full of icons" - they are quite fascinated by icons and each have their own above their beds.
I have heard that on this Sunday, many Eastern Churches will bless icons that you bring to Liturgy - is this the case in all Churches? I think it would be neat for each of them to bring their icon to have them blessed - but I only want to have them bring them if this will happen.
Also, I noticed that Holy Transfiguration, which is where we are going, has a "Procession" about an hour before the Liturgy - what is that?
I tried to call the church, but no one was answering.
Excuse my ignorance...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,680 Likes: 14
John Member
|
|
John Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,680 Likes: 14 |
Every parish is different. I�d call ahead and see what they do (keep calling until you get someone). At my parish on the Sunday of Orthodoxy the children process with icons they have made (usually by pasting icon prints on wood) and have them blessed.
I don�t know what the procession is that occurs an hour before the Divine Liturgy that you are referring. My guess is that it might be the procession that takes place during the Great Doxology of Matins (�Glory to God in the highest�.�).
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930 |
At St. Georges, which is Melkite, there is a procession with the icons that starts before the Divine Liturgy. At our church it is usually done inside, not out, everyone carries their icons through the church as the Anathamas are proclaimed. The ECCD kids usallly come in early from class so it is not too far into the normal time for the Liturgy when it is completed. If you have never heard the Anathamas before they are very interesting and will give you much to discuss when the day is done. The Iconoclastic period was very interesting. Some links follow. sitting here thinking about the situation in the world today, it seems that many of these could be rephrased somewhat to cover the attempts to destroy Christianity today. From the New Advent: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07620a.htm This is from Myendorf: http://www.holytrinitymission.org/books/english/byzantine_theology_j_meyendorf.htm#_Toc26430217 This is an interesting article on icons and the iconoclasts http://www.orthodoxartist.com/faq.asp Seems to me like it is more important than ever to remember the battle that was at hand. Pani Rose
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,084 Likes: 12
Global Moderator Member
|
|
Global Moderator Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,084 Likes: 12 |
Originally posted by francis:
Also, I noticed that Holy Transfiguration, which is where we are going, has a "Procession" about an hour before the Liturgy - what is that?
Francis, Holy Transfiguration serves Orthros at 9:15 on Sunday ordinarily. My guess would be that the procession of the icons will be in conjunction with Orthros. Hopefully, Vie or one of the other forum members from Holy Transfiguration will see this and be able to comment. Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,084 Likes: 12
Global Moderator Member
|
|
Global Moderator Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,084 Likes: 12 |
Francis,
By chance, I just had a conversation with a friend who attends Holy Transfiguration. My supposition was correct. The procession of Icons occurs in conjunction with Orthros and commences at 9:15; the anathemas will then be proclaimed inside the church.
Many years,
Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 478
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 478 |
By chance, I just had a conversation with a friend who attends Holy Transfiguration. My supposition was correct. The procession of Icons occurs in conjunction with Orthros and commences at 9:15; the anathemas will then be proclaimed inside the church. Forgive my denseness - so this means that the anathemas will also be said before the Liturgy? My wife is worried about the young kids making it through the whole thing. So we probably will just go at 10:30 to the Liturgy - this means we miss the procession and anathemas, correct? (bummer for me, but probably good for my young ones, who are used to the RC one-hour Mass)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315 Likes: 21
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315 Likes: 21 |
Dear Friends,
I've heard that some OCA parishes have been quietly dropping a number of anathemas at these services.
Gone are the anathemas against the "headless Severus" and the "impious Dioscoros" et al.
With apologies to Mor Ephrem!
What say ye?
Alex
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,698
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,698 |
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Gone are the anathemas against the "headless Severus" and the "impious Dioscoros" et al. How cute! And it's St. Severus' feast day too! :p On a more serious note, are these anathemas supposed to be said in every parish? It was my understanding that this only took/takes place in the cathedral church, or wherever a bishop happened to be.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,084 Likes: 12
Global Moderator Member
|
|
Global Moderator Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,084 Likes: 12 |
Originally posted by francis:
Forgive my denseness - so this means that the anathemas will also be said before the Liturgy? My wife is worried about the young kids making it through the whole thing. So we probably will just go at 10:30 to the Liturgy - this means we miss the procession and anathemas, correct? (bummer for me, but probably good for my young ones, who are used to the RC one-hour Mass) Francis, I've consulted with my friend and am told that if you arrive by 10:15, you'll be in time to hear the anathemas proclaimed and, as my friend says, these will be well worth hearing. My friend suggests (and I agree) that there will be enough going on that your little ones will be sufficiently riveted that they'll hardly notice the passage of time. Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315 Likes: 21
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315 Likes: 21 |
Bless, Catholicos Mor Ephrem! In my area, all the Orthodox (Byzantine  ) Churches get together and have a common anathema service. I guess they figure that they should all re-anathematize the guys all together! Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, through the prayers of Thy Most Holy Mother and Thy Apostle Saint Thomas of India, of St Mar Gregorios of Parumala, of Saint Severus of Antioch, the holy Patriarch of Alexandria, St Dioscoros, St Philoxenos of Mabbugh, St Peter Mongus the Patriarch, St Jacob Bardeana, St Timothy Aelurus the Confessor and all Thy Saints, have mercy on us and save us, for Thou are Holy indeed and a Lover of Mankind. Amen! Alex
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 478
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 478 |
Thanks for the assistance Neil.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 |
Mor Ephrem is correct, historically on Orthodoxy Sunday the anathemas were pronounced by the bishop as he is the shepherd of his church and has authority to do so.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315 Likes: 21
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,315 Likes: 21 |
Dear Diak,
That avatar is so beautiful - and the Cross . . .
Is there any symbolic significance to the length of the chain of the pectoral Cross or the length of the Cross itself?
Alex
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,461 |
Ahhhh, thank you Peter. Those are wonderful.
Yes, it is quite spectacular...the Protodeacon or Archdeacon receives a special blessing from the Bishop, who hands the Anathemas to the Proto/Archdeacon, his liturgical "press manager" and the proclaimer of the Gospel, to proclaim by his order the anathemas.
I can just see it, the Bishop on his orlets, blessing the protodeacon, the protodeacon reading and proclaiming in the name of the shepherd the anathemas...
|
|
|
|
|
