www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Coming back into the Byzantine Catholic Church from the Orthodox Church in America

I am a member of the Orthodox Church in America and I want to come back into the Byzantine Catholic Church which I recieved all the Holy Mysteries of Initiation in. What is the process for my reception. Do I keep my Orthodox Name that I received at my Chrismation in the OCA: which was Theodosius?

Thank you for your help.

Dear Theodosius1,

There is no formal process for an Orthodox Christian who wishes to join the Byzantine Catholic Church.

-Orthodox Christians are free to partake of the Holy Mysteries in the Byzantine Catholic Church on an occasional or ongoing basis if there is a true spiritual benefit and if they are properly disposed (but they are urged to follow the discipline of their own Orthodox jurisdiction).

-Orthodox Christians are free to join and worship in Byzantine Catholic Churches and partake of all the Sacramental Mysteries while remaining Orthodox Christians. The �process' of becoming a Byzantine Catholic or joining a Byzantine parish while remaining Orthodox usually consists of completing the registration form and taking envelopes just like any other new member of the parish. There is no public �chrismation' or profession of faith since partaking of the Sacramental Mysteries indicates your profession of faith.

My recommendation is that you make an appointment with the pastor of the Byzantine Catholic parish you wish to join. He will probably ask you a few questions to determine if you need any special education. Those who are life long Orthodox (or Byzantine Catholics who have joined Orthodox jurisdictions) are treated differently than those who, for example, were baptized Orthodox within the last year and have roots in fundamental Protestantism. The converts from Protestantism would require special education whereas the cradle Orthodox would be on a more even level of education with most parishioners. If you started out Byzantine Catholic the pastor would, no doubt, be interested in your initial reasons for joining an Orthodox jurisdiction and, now, your reasons for re-joining the Byzantine Catholic Church. He would wish to make sure that you are �seeking' something you find missing rather than �fleeing' something you don't like within Orthodoxy that you may find yourself �fleeing' once you find that we have the same lived experience. He may also ask that you meet with your spiritual director.

Regarding the name �Theodosius' which you received with your chrismation into Orthodoxy, the decision on whether to retain it or drop it is yours. If you took the name to symbolize an embracement of Orthodoxy, keep it. If you took it to symbolize a rejection of Byzantine Catholicism, I'd recommend dropping it or taking a new name. All of this, of course, should be done with the input and support of your spouse and family (if you are married) and your pastor or spiritual director.

Dear Theodosius,

Please remember that taking communion from a Byzantine Catholic parish, while acceptable to Byzantine Catholics, may be taken as a de facto rejection of Orthodoxy and in effect excommunicate you from the OCA. Hopefully the pastoral guidance you receive from either or both of your OCA or Byzantine Catholic priests will be sufficiently senstitive to what must be a difficult time in your life.

Good Luck and God Bless,

Bill

Theodosius1,

A profession of faith is needed for Orthodox Christians who want to become Byzantine Catholics. It is not sufficient to just register at a Byzantine Catholic parish and begin using the "envelopes just like any other new member of the parish".

Recently, a priest of the Orthodox Church in America joined the Ukrainian Catholic monks of Holy Tranfiguration Monastery in Redwood Valley, CA. According to their newsletter, "Gladsome Light", he made a profession of faith.

In the booklet,"The Eastern Rite Churches", by Catholic Information Service-Knights of Columbus, it states:

"...an Orthodox convert simply makes a profession of faith and acknowledges the Pope as head of the church; no sacraments are repeated, as we recognize the validity of the sacraments as they are administered in the orthodox church. this is especially important and to be considered when Orthodox clergy join themselves to Catholic unity.

Other Catholic sources have also stated the need of Orthodox Christians to make a profession of faith.

Byzantino,

The Knights of Columbus is an excellent organization but their publications are usually inaccurate on topics relating to the Eastern Churches and generally assume that our practice is identical to the Roman Catholic practice. Most importantly, they do not speak for our bishops.

While the new Eastern Canon Law requires that Orthodox who wish to officially join themselves to the Byzantine Catholic Church make a profession of faith (Canon 897) there is no officially approved and mandated formula for such a profession of faith. Perhaps this is because, as Pope John Paul II has stated: "that even schism is too strong a word to describe our separation." Vatican II, the most recent General Council in the West (Decree on the Eastern Churches, #25), made clear that any profession should be "no more than is required of a simple profession of faith". Such a profession of faith may consist of any word or action of that proclaims one's faith. It need not be a formal or even spoken. I am aware that Fr. David Anderson of the OCA made a profession of faith at Holy Transfiguration. Such a formality is acceptable but not required (my understanding is that it was quite simple and in it Fr. Anderson accepted the fullness of Catholicism without reciting a litany accepting or rejecting anything).

The key here is that, above all, one must be pastoral. The reality of parish life in the Byzantine Catholic Church is that we get a number of Orthodox who choose to worship in our Churches. The majority are spouses of Byzantine Catholics, but a good percentage also choose the parish on their own in search of a spiritual home. They are already welcome to partake of the Sacramental Mysteries (although they are advised to respect their own disciplines). It is not unusual then that when they get around to actually officially joining the parish that they are already integrated into the parish family and the only step remaining is to "take envelopes". This is the reality of what happens in most of our parishes. Ask your pastor if you wish to know more about what is customary in your parish. Perhaps Byzantine Catholics of non-Ruthenian traditions have slightly different customs.

Just a small defense of the Knights of Columbus, which is an interritual organization. The Knights in Ontario have been very helpful in the cause for the canonization of the Servant of God Metropolitan Andrei Sheptyts'kyi.

Kurt,

Agreed. As I stated in an earlier post, they are an excellent organization. Their faith is evident in their works. It is we who are at fault for not educating others about the Byzantine Church.

Glory to Jesus Christ.
Moose,
Is the Fr David Anderson to whom you referred the one who was formerly associated with the Orthodox church in Ben Lomond, California?
Woody

>>Such a profession of faith may consist of any word of that proclaims one's faith. It not need be formal or even spoken.<<

Moose,
I must say that I am very concerned about the replies that you are putting on this thread. With all due repect to you, I believe you should look up "profession of faith" in some Catholic dictionaries and encyclopedias. How can one make a profession of faith without any words? To make a profession of faith is to make an oral declaration of one's desire to believe in the Catholic faith, preferably before the community he/she is about to join.

I have never heard of or witnessed a proclamation of faith that involved no words. An Orthodox Christian simply receiving the Eucharist in a Byzantine Catholic parish does not qualify as a "simple profession of faith". I have always witnessed a spoken declaration of faith( even if it involves answering "yes" to the questions asked by the priest) before the newly received convert receives the Eucharist.

I would like to know where you got this information or is this simply your own interpretation? Be careful, Moose! I, for one, do not tolerate misinformation. Did a priest tell this to you? Is this the policy of a particular eparchy? I am more than willing to admit error if you can provide with the facts.

Yes, I am aware of Orthodox Christians who attend Byzantine Catholic parishes and always receive the Eucharist, yet they do not consider themselves as Byzantine Catholics. Their thinking is that "it's all the same thing", or "I'm not Catholic, I'm Orthodox". Isn't that being indifferent to the reality that there is a difference between Eastern Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy? Believe me,this type of thinking has only lead to internal divisions in parishes.

It has always been my understanding that professions of faith are public(i.e. before the parish). After all, if one wants to officially join a parish or community, that parish or community wants to witness that profession.

The Orthodox Churches certainly make public the professions of faith made by Byzantine Catholics who join them. The Russian Orthodox Church in Exile even asks Catholics
who join it to not only profess the Orthodox faith, but also to renounce that they were Catholic. They are asked to renounce the belief that the Church can be led by "one man"(i.e. the Pope). Fr. Alexei Young, an ex-Catholic, now a Russian in Exile priest states this in a booklet he has written, and I have seen it.

Moose, we must be careful to never pass off our personal interpretations as official Church positions.

[This message has been edited by Byzantino (edited 11-15-1999).]

Byzantio,

If you need clarification, please contact your pastor or e-mail any member of the staff of the Seminary of SS. Cyril & Methodius (most of the staff have e-mails listed on their website at https://www.byzcath.org/seminary ). A profession of faith may be a public declaration. But it may also be a way of life.

Dear Moose,
Thank you for your suggestion. Actually, I will be meeting with my pastor regarding another matter, but I will ask him regarding what qualifies as a "profession of faith".

>>But it also may be a way of life<<

Yes, we should live each day of our lives as a profession of faith, but let's not go off on a tangent. We're discussing in this thread what qualifies as a "profession of faith" for an Orthodox Christian who wants to become Catholic.

Is the content of your replies in this thread based upon information given to you by the staff of SS. Cyril and Methodius Seminary? Did they refer you to any document regarding their procedure for receiving Eastern Orthodox Christians?

P.S. By the way, your second reply on this thread is suspicously similar to another reply regarding this same topic on another website - and it includes a name! Is it possible that I have uncovered the secret identity of Moose?

[This message has been edited by Byzantino (edited 11-15-1999).]

[This message has been edited by Byzantino (edited 11-15-1999).]

[This message has been edited by Byzantino (edited 11-15-1999).]

>>But it also may be a way of life<<

There are several points to consider here. Many Orthodox who join the Byzantine Catholic Church do not see it in the sense of conversion as one would from a Protestant to Roman Catholic Church. They simply start going to the parish. The liturgy and parish life is virtually identical to any Orthodox parish. For those who seek to officially join the Byzantine Catholic Church it is often after being an unofficial member of the parish family for several years. It would be very strange for the pastor to ask a parishioner who has been part of the parish family to stand up and make the same profession of faith that the whole community makes at every Divine Liturgy. That's why, in many cases, "getting envelopes" is the closest thing to anything official. I know this is often times very annoying to Latins but it is the reality. I've seen it in my parish on more than a few occasions and the Byzantine priests I know all tell me it's the same practice they use.

>>Is the content of your replies in this thread based upon information given to you by the staff of SS. Cyril and Methodius Seminary? <<

Yes - them and other Byzantine priests over the course of many years since I consult them regularly about many issues. But no, I have not consulted them about this particular topic since I've discussed it with them previously.

>>Did they refer you to any document regarding their procedure for receiving Eastern Orthodox Christians? <<

No. As far as I am aware there is no official procedure for receiving a member of an Orthodox Church into the Byzantine Catholic Church. If there is, our priests don't seem to know about it. There is a profession of faith for converts in the old Euchologion (which itself is unofficial) but it is identical to the one used by the Latin Church to receive converts (it consists of the usual Niceano-Constantinopolitan Creed + an embracement of the pope as supreme pontiff, etc.). It appears to have been a latinization (our ancient formulas would match those of the Orthodox) and has generally fallen into disuse (although I am sure there are a few older priests around who might occasionally use it). [It would be the topic for a separate discussion but it is curious that it seems that Roman Catholics treat converts from Orthodoxy the same as the do converts from Protestantism.]

>>By the way, your second reply on this thread is suspiciously similar to another reply regarding this same topic on another Catholic website - and it includes a name! Is it possible that I have uncovered the secret identity of Moose?:-> <<

There is only one Moose! Participation in one website is already too much for me. But please post the URL of this Catholic Website. It would be interesting to see where else there are discussions about the East.

Glory to Jesus Christ ! As recently as the 1930's a similar dispute took place in Poland and Czechoslovakia. A number of Orthodox wanted to enter the Catholic Church. The Roman Catholic bishops wanted these dissidents to take a catechism class. The Byzantine bishops (Ukrainians and Carpatho-Rusyns) along with the Jesuit, Redemptorist and Basilian missionaries insisted that these seekers already had the faith. They had them profess the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Symbol of Faith. Only the Carpatho-Rusyn bishops insisted that the filioque be included. Even the Union of Uzhorod in 1646 consisted only of an oath of loyalty to the pope and a profession of the Nicene symbol.

[This message has been edited by Doulos of Fatima (edited 11-15-1999).]

A fascinating discussion gentlemen!
When I became Orthodox our priest used the Hapgood book to receive people into the catechumenate - and there are "renunciations" there which apply to whatever "heresy" you may have been involved in.
I recall the story of Fr. Lev Gillet who when he became Orthodox simply vested as a priest and began to serve the Liturgy as an Orthodox priest. So there are many variables in becoming Orthodox (and there is a big discussion over whether heterodox should be chrismated or baptized also).
I recall when I worshipped in an Eastern-Rite Church that Latins were "chrismated" upon reception into the rite. I recall asking the Deacon why an RC would have to become "Byzantine" since we could receive Communion and go to Church there anyway. He felt it was important for Rome to know "our numbers" in any possible census I imagine.
Anyway, sorry to take this discussion in another direction.
Frankly I was very disappointed by the actions of Fr. David Anderson - somebody who was a beacon for many who found the Orthodox Church, I believe he should have continued to struggle within Orthodoxy as he had preached so eloquently for many years.
BTW, what's the difference between the OCA and the Byzantine Catholic Church anyway? :-)

John

Dear John and others,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Please do not comment on the actions of named individuals, especially when it is impossible for them to respond personally. In future I will simply delete gossip of this kind.

unworthy monk Maximos