www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Spiritual fruits of Byzantine Catholicism?

A little "debate" elsewhere online has got me wondering how the reasonable people here would answer this question:

What are the spiritual fruits of Byzantine Catholicism?

A charge has been made at least a few times that "if BCs really have the fullness of the faith where are the monasteries and the saints? Even in these spiritually dry times the Orthodox are over flowing with saints...."

Of course, we have our martyrs and confessors, and nevermind that our Church was persecuted under Communism and elsewhere. But where are the living saints and heroes/heroines of this Church? Or is she, like the charge implies, just an empty shell, an impotent artificial creation at the end of its useful life?

(Try to keep it positive, please. I'd like to hear affirmation where it can be found.)

Lemko,

I think you know the answer. You go to the pilgrimage at Uniontown. You attend our parishes. Everyweek people worship the Trinity, advance on the path to salvation and God is glorified through them. To outsiders given the various problems and tribulations we go through perhaps we don't look like a vast spiritual treasure chest like their own Orthodox Church does. Those who experience our Church know differently. Observation and experience are very different things.

In Christ,
Subdeacon Lance

"Blessed are the peacemakers."
Are we "uniates" not the bridge between Orthodoxy and Catholicism? I know the term "uniate" is typically used derogatorily, especially by the Orthodox, but really, don't you see the word "union" there? When my Latin Rite priest speaks of "Rome and her Uniates", he says it in such a loving way that I no longer dislike the term.

I think that Lance has spoken wisely.

But there is a hidden premise in the question that you are repeating, Lemko, that should be addressed. The idea of comparing jurisdictions using monasticism as a barometer was raised on the Indiana list. Here's what Bishop Tikhon had to say:

"Monastolatry" !

OK, forget the monastic criterion. How about mine -- where are our living saints? Where are our prominent pro-life leaders, our Mother Teresas, our Fr. Frank Pavones?

"Sometimes you wanna go where everybody knows your name..." Who's out there making the name of Byzantine Catholic known as something good, something holy?

Who are your Byzantine Catholic heroes/heroines? (living and out there "doing")

Well, as a relatively new Ukie wannabe, I do know one person who I consider to be a heroine, although few may recognize it. We call her Babcia and she is one of the faithful women who are the life blood of the Church. Born in southwest Poland of mixed Lemko/Boyko stock. Her mother died when she was a child and she raised her siblings. Sent to Germany to work on a farm during WWII and spent the war years there. After the war was in a DP camp and met her husband there. In the early 50s, her and her husband and baby immigrated to the USA with literally nothing but the clothes they were wearing. But they survived and prospered in a small way...always sustained and supported by her faith and love of God. She is my hero and I love her very much and her example is one of the reasons for me becoming Ukrainian Catholic. Don

Lemko, I think Don makes a good point. The true saints are often hidden.

Recognition (Mother Theresa, Fr. Pavone) is not a guarantor of sanctity--it can be an obstacle to sanctity.

The spiritual fruits of Byzantine Catholicism are apparent to me when I attend the Melkite Parish in McClean, VA--a vibrant liturgy, devout people, fervent priests, full-fledged Eastern traditions (including married clergy, etc). Long live the Catholic East!

LatinTrad

The holiest and most effective saints, East or West, are the ones you've never heard of, and never WILL hear of, till you meet them in heaven. (So try to get there! )

No, Uniatism is a hinderance, and was condemned by the Balamand Agreement.

anastasios

Spiritual fruits of Byzantine Catholicism?

1. The Liturgy!
2. The Sacraments!
3. Knowing that you are in the Church that Jesus Christ founded!
4. Knowing that your soul is in Good Hands!
5. The people - most caring and loving anywhere!
6. The Music!
7. The Churches that are not Latizined!
8. Icons!
9. The Food!
10. The History!

I realize this. Apparently many people don't realize it, and they will dismiss the holiness or "churchness" of a Church because of this very hidden nature of sanctity. But now that the time of persecution (for most of the Byzantine Catholic Churches in the world) has passed, who will be our new saints?

Spiritual fruit of the Byzantine Church = Humility.

The beautiful humility of the priests and parishioners is what drew me into the Byzantine Church.

I think the fact that the Holy Father John Paul II have recently canonized and beautified more than a few Byzantine saints and martyers speaks volumes of the spiritual fruits of our Church. The fact that these people are recognized by the UNIVERSAL Church rather than specific Churches like Orthodox does. So that alone speaks VOLUMES of it.

Also...the fact I THINK...(based on my experiences)...Byzantine Catholics are more educated on the faith than the Orthodox...even more than the priests (I dare say). Why? Because I always ask lots of questions...and the Orthodox would always say "I don't know. You'll have to ask Fr." And when I do...I'd get inadquete answer or sometimes they'd say "Oh I'll have to think of that and get back to you."

So when I do ask questions to Byzantine Catholics...they seem to know the answer...because of their education.

Of course I don't try to speak generally about it..but only based on my experiences.

So I think that's a good fruit right there.

Also...I would think the fruit would be the fact we outlived the communists...and defied their attempts to make us exhinct. Boy, my spelling isn't good tonight.

That's a good fruit too.

Also another good fruit...is that we are a LIVING Church...meaning that we always transform with the times...just like a language...which transform through time...our theology always continue to grow and expand through time. I HATE to say this...but the Orthodox seems to be much slower in that area...especially when most of them tend to live in the past way too much. That's all they seem to live on...the PAST. Where's their growth? Where's their forgiveness? Where's their vision? Etc. Also...things that is done in the past doesn't neccessary mean it's RIGHT...so we try to grow past that while maintaining our theological mindset and concept.

One of the impacting fruit..I THINK...is the fact that Eastern Catholicism (meaning ALL not just Byzantines)...is a good foundation of the whole Universal Church...is a good influence and a good beginning of the Church as John Paul II puts it. In other words...if it wasn't for Eastern Catholics...the Latin Catholics and Universal Church wouldn't be today. SO that's very POWERFUL statement coming from the Pope of Rome. So we get a lot of credit for it...so that's a very good fruit there.

I could go on and on. There are many many good fruits of BC.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

I think we really have to avoid the "my church is better than your church" approach. I know for myself that I've met very holy people (who I'd call living saints) in Roman, Orthodox, Byzantine and Coptic Churches (and I'm sure there are many in other Churches as well.)

Anastasios wrote:

I would re-word that somewhat.

Uniatism as a model of union is a hindrance and was condemned by Balamand.

"Uniats" (as the term is generally used) were not condemned--nor their right to exist.

David Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Dave,

That's why I said Uniatism is a hinderance. Byzantine Catholics themselves have a right to exist but the phenomenon of Uniatism is a hinderance and that's why Rome thankfully does not follow it any longer.

anastasios