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#83029 02/14/05 03:22 PM
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Teen,

"I'm surprised and a bit alarmed at how nonchalant some are about the lack of uniformity in the Canon."

I would concur with the Fr. Thomas. There is only Tradition of which Scripture is a part. Whether or not a book is in the Canon or excluded does not necessarily impact how influential that book is. For example many of the books of the Old Testament are never read liturgically, nor is the Book of Revelation. On the other hand while not read itself, the Protoevangelion of James provides the basis of much of the hymnography for the Feasts of the Mother of God's Conception, Nativity, and Presentation in the Temple so it has exercised quite a bit of influence in the Christian East.

Also not evn the New Testament Canon is the same for all. The Syriac Churches uses the Peshitta Bible which does not include II Peter, II John, III John, Jude, or Revelation. These books are never used in the Syriac lectionary.

Also the is hierarchy within Tradition and even within Scripture itself. The Gospels are a form the Presence of Christ and are treated as such. The Gospel Book alone sits on the Holy Altar, is reverenced with a kiss and incense, is enthroned at Ecumenical Councils, and is used to impart blessings. The Epistles are read at every Liturgy. The Psalms are used every day. The Old Testament is used sparingly. Genesis, Proverbs and Isaiah are read during the Great Fast, Exodus during Great Week. A few other books are read on at Vespers of Feasts. Others are never used at all.

So if the Churches differ on a couple of Books in the Old Testament that are not used liturgically I don't see that as a great problem. Rome has never even raised it as an issue in ecumencial dialogue.

Fr. Deacon Lance


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
#83030 02/14/05 03:28 PM
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Dear Tony,

Yes, of course!

The Book of Revelation is NOT read liturgically in the Slavonic East especially (although it is in private monastic cell-rules).

And it is the "glory" of the Slavonic tradition that such books invariably include much liturgical and hagiographical material! smile

Met. Seraphim of Canada's "Book of Psalms" is a prime example of an English psalter with much, much liturgical material included, as well as other rules for praying the psalter (ie. the 12 Psalms).

This underscores the fact that the Bible is a great liturgical book and is integrally united to the liturgical traditions of the Church.

The entire Bible is published, as you stated, as well.

The practice of continuous reading of the Gospel as a liturgical act by priests is noted by a number of Orthodox writers, such as St Nicodemos of the Holy Mountain and St John Chrysostom.

And it was St Tikhon of Zadonsk who revivified this practice among the laity in particular.

When it comes to reading and praying with Scripture, the Orthodox take a back seat to no one, wouldn't you say? smile

Alex

#83031 02/14/05 03:33 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
When it comes to reading and praying with Scripture, the Orthodox take a back seat to no one, wouldn't you say? smile

Alex
Dear-in-Christ Alex,

Hard to say. I wish I could say yes. I think that in other times and places there has been more piety - prayer and reading of holy texts, Scripture for instance. I can only speak for myself and some others around me who share things like this with me: we need to pray more and read pious tomes more, especially the Scriptures.

T

#83032 02/14/05 04:10 PM
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Dear Tony,

I remember reading about a vision of a holy man of Russia.

He saw a vision of a devil who appeared as an old, battle-weary soldier, barely able to stand, with a tattered uniform.

The vision began telling him how badly damaged his "legions" were by spiritual reading ("those smoky books" as the vision called them).

He said that when laxity crept into a monastery, hell began to slowly withdraw its armies, one division at a time.

"And when they allow women to enter into the monastery, the commanders of hell withdraw more than one . . ."

"But then some young fanatic monk comes by and starts reading those books (Scripture and the Fathers)."

"He gets it into his head to observe the church's rules of prayer and fasting and to lead a fanatical life devoted to God."

"Then he starts 'infecting' the other monks by his crazy ideas . . ."

"The commanders of hell then must recall our divisions to attack the monastery once more - but to no avail."

"Look what happened to me . . . this is all the fault of those smoky books - perdition take them . . ."

May we all take to heart the assiduous reading of Scripture and the Fathers, especially during the Great Fast!

Alex

#83033 02/14/05 04:12 PM
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Dear Father Deacon Lance,

Could it be said that the books such as the Protoevangelium of James "continue" to be read in our Churches through the liturgical services?

Alex

#83034 02/15/05 12:37 AM
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Tony,

That's a good question. I believe 3 Maccabees is canonical in the Armenian Church but 4 Macc was included as an appendix. But maybe you should ask Fr. Vahan your question:

http://www.armenianchurch.org/diocese/clergy/info.php?clergyid=90

#83035 02/15/05 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by Ghazar:
Tony,

That's a good question. I believe 3 Maccabees is canonical in the Armenian Church but 4 Macc was included as an appendix. But maybe you should ask Fr. Vahan your question:

http://www.armenianchurch.org/diocese/clergy/info.php?clergyid=90
Thanks Ghazar. I just may have to do that.

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