www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Ruthenian setting for "Eis Polla Eti Despota!"

Which one? The one in Slavonic to be sung after Communion (after �Save your people, O Lord�.�) can be found in the Blue Boksaj. I have an English setting and I can e-mail you pdf copy of it (it is described in my post above).

At the risk of sounding like Hritzko, I am about to go nutso myself. Jim writes: "Byzantine Catholic as opposed to Ukrainian Catholic". This is beyond the beyond. "Byzantine Catholic" is a higher set, to use a technical term GCSSSCM, the Pittsburgh Metropolia, and whatever else have no exclusive rights to that name.
"Voshel jesi archijereju" is nothing more nor less than a Church-Slavonic paraphrase of "Ecce Sacerdos Magnus".
Whoever wrote that the Carpatho-Russian Diocese (which is not now and never has been named the "Rusyn Orthodox Church", of all things) no longer uses the Mnohaja L'ita. I beg your pardon? They most certainly sing Mnohaja L'ita. They also sing Ton Despotin, and they can tell the difference.
Would anyone care to produce an authenticated Rusyn edition of the Archieraticon? The present Ruthenian Recension edition from Rome certainly includes Ton Despotin and Eis polla eti, Despota. But if someone can point to a published Archieraticon from Uzhhorod, or even a carefully-dated manuscript Archieraticon from Uzhhorod, I shall most gratefully read it with keen interest.
All is not lost - I think my liquor cabinet contains the makings of consolation. Maybe I'll just get blotto and not bother to go nutso.
Incognitus

For Incognitus' sake, I should say that I came back to this thread from over a year ago in order to find additional settings for consideration for use when our bishop comes to visit. A year ago we had nothing to offer His Grace except a generic hymn from the back of our Liturgy book. There IS special music to be sung in honor of the bishop's office. If we do "Eis polla eti, Despota", it will be from one of the simple settings suggested about a year ago, since no others have been put forward. The other hymns mentioned are at least worth looking at, assuming they have had a place in Ruthenian services in the past. A special handout might be produced for the occasion, guiding everyone to where they are to be sung in the service itself.

And as for Byzantine Catholic as opposed to Ukrainian Catholic- well, I am concerned with settings that would be acceptable for use under Metropolitan Basil and Bishop William, our local bishop. Hope that helps some.

Incognitus,

You are correct that the term �Byzantine Catholic� is a �higher term�, just like the term �Greek Catholic�.

It is curious how people never got upset when � a generation ago - both the Ruthenian and Ukrainian parishes simply used the title �St. X Greek Catholic Church� (without any ethnic qualifiers) but now begin caterwauling whenever the Ruthenians continue the custom with the newer but equivalent term �Byzantine Catholic�.

I am curious, do you know the history of the switch from the term �Greek Catholic� to �Ukrainian Catholic� by the Ukrainian Byzantine/Greek Catholic Church?

But maybe we should start a new thread for such a discussion?

But since you have your liquor cabinet open might I invite the Forum members to stop by your place for an adult beverage? I�ll send along some potato chips and cashews.

Admin

Dear Administrator,
Forum members are always welcome to stop by and enjoy the adult beverages - we shall appreciate your contributions to the festivities, but most of all your presence at them.
Now to your question - I don't quite report this of my own knowledge, since I wasn't there, but it would appear that the hierarchy of the Philadelphia Metropolia and the Winnipeg Metropolia held a joint meeting in the late fifties and took a decision to abandon "Greek Catholic" in favor of "Ukrainian Catholic". The motive was simple: "Greek Catholic" could and did cause trouble in the civil courts. Nevertheless, this decision was not unopposed; FAther Victor Pospishil in particular advised against it most strenuously. Now we have the ironic situation that "Greek-Catholic" is the legal name of this Church in Ukraine (where "Ukrainian CAtholic" is a euphemism for "Roman Catholic" of a certain background which I shall not mention!), so, on the one hand, some Ukrainian-Americans are trying to convince the Church in Ukraine to drop the "Greek-Catholic" (which will not happen in the immediate future) and adopt the name "Ukrainian CAtholic" (which is impossible, since the RCs already have registered that name for themselves), and others are busily restoring the use of "Greek Catholic" on the correct premise that it is ridiciulous for the tail to attempt to wag the dog.
I may be mistaken, but I'm under the impression that Bishop Daniel had the same motive for abandoning "Greek-Catholic"; the name had proved to be a complicating factor when litigation loomed.
Incognitus
P.S. do you know of any salt-free popcorn for microwave ovens?

P.S. "Byzantine Catholic" is not inaccurate, but it triggers a negative emotional reaction amongst those who are aware of what went on in Eastern Poland in the twenties and thirties of the last century.
My own preference for Greek-Catholic is that it is the common name for everybody who is in union with Rome and uses the Byzantine Liturgy. Besides, it's a historic term while "Byzantine" as a religious designation is a neologism.
This should not be taken as a disavowal of Byzas the Fisherman from Megara, who founded the place, nor of the Queen City which resulted, and which still bears his name when the city is mentioned in adjectival form (e.g. Constantinople is the great center of Byzantine art and architecture). Byzas knew what he was doing, and did it well. Memory Eternal!

["Istanbul", in case anybody is wondering is nothing more than a Greek phrase - Eis tin polin" spelled in Turkish phonetics. "Eis tin polin" means "to the city", and works in the same way as the same phrase is often used in, for example, New Jersey and Connecticut by people who are going into New York.]

Hey, where's the directions? Is there any left, or did you guys drink it all?

Dearest Incongnitus,

I knew that, but didn't know that many others did...then again, you are an incredible wealth of knowledge, and if anyone would know that here, it would have to be you!

As a New Yorker, I will double my compliment, by saying, 'great analogy'...we do say, "I am going into the city"!!!

Now, to test your incredible mind...what do the Fathers of the Church say about compliments?

With much love in Christ,
Alice

BTW, I have two or three Serbian settings for the Ton Despotin, etc. If anyone is interested I can email a scan.

The Fathers of the Church tell us to avoid compliments, seeking (at most) only a reward from the Lord in the age to come. It is not without wisdom that several cultures of the Orient do not permit people to accept compliments (in Chinese one says "tai kechi, tai kechi" and turns a bit away from the person offering the compliment - who in turn presses the compliment a bit more before modestly refraining from further inducement).
That said, thank you very kindly!
Incognitus

I prefer almonds, but am much less picky about the liquor. The Fathers do, however, often take great effort to extol hospitality.

I am quite comfortable with "Greek Catholic", or as Fr. Andriy Chirovsky sometimes uses, "Greco-Catholic". I would point out that not only the UGCC, but all of the smaller sui iuris jurisdictions directly dependent on Rome such as Presov and Uzhorod also use "Greek Catholic".

As far as I can tell there never was any mutual agreement/treaty between Metropolitan Constantine and the PM regarding the use of the term "Byzantine", either verbal or written. The use of that term appears to be solely attributable to the PM.

It seems rather ludicrous that one jurisdiction would presume to lay claim to a term that embraces so many things (especially historically) that it is currently not. If they brought back the Emperor, well, perhaps I'll take another look at it.

My personal favorite setting of "Ton Despotin" is the early 1900s setting of Archpriest M. Lisytsyn that was published at the Pecherska Lavra before the Revolution. I don't have the music, but I've sung it over the phone to a few people to learn and am always willing to do that.

Is there really so little music to honor the office of bishop available?

There is, of course, a big difference between honoring someone personally and honoring the position they hold. Maybe the lack of music stems from some perception that the honor is personal. Then again, maybe I'm just looking for answers in the wrong place?

Dear Alice,
There is also the form "en ti poli", which people even in Athens spontaneously use even nowadays to refer to something or other located in Constantinople.

Dear Everybody,
You all missed a great party - the liquor caibnet has barely survived. At least one of our posters made it (he's still here and sleeping it off). Unfortunately the potato chips and cashews never arrived, so we had to make do with pistachios. But that's ok; I like pistachios.

Incognitus

Too bad the party wasn't closer. I think I'm 4 days' drive from where it was.

Dearest Incognitus,

Thank you, AS ALWAYS, for the interesting information and the answer to my question on the Church Fathers!

With love in Christ,
Alice