www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Women as tonsured readers

I happened to be web surfing on an unrelated subject and came across this photo of Met. Anthony's tonsuring of a woman, Eve Tibbs, as a Reader:

Tonsure by Met. Anthony [stpaulsirvine.org]

The picture came from the parish history page:

Parish History of Saint Paul\'s Greek Orthodox Church [stpaulsirvine.org]

My question for our Orthodox brothers and sisters: Are women normally tonsured as Readers and/or Psalti?

Please, I am not trying to begin a debate upon this practice, I just want to know if this is standard practice.

Christ is Risen!
Truly He is Risen!

Dear Fr. Deacon John,

NO! This is a practice which should not have been allowed, as the prayers for tonsuring a Reader clearly state "This is the first step in the priesthood".

Gaudior, who has taken issue with this same Metropolitan's actions before.

My understanding from a Greek priest I know is that it is done on occasion in some of their eparchies. However, it is considered highly controversial, and many clergy resist it. For example, in this priest's parish, there are five tonsured psalti, all men. There are a couple of women that have been trying to move from the choir to the cantor's stand for a couple years now, but the priest has been resisting it best he can and running interference with Met. Anthony, who supports it pretty strongly.

My guess is that if it ever became widespread practice, there would be a serious schism, which has not happened so far because of the low key nature.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable can speak.

Justin

My understanding is that you are certainly not alone.

Saint Nectarios of Aegina is known to have ordained a woman to the subdiaconate, so presumably he also tonsured her as a reader. However, it is certainly true that the practice is as rare as hen's teeth, if I may be allowed the use of that expression!
Christ is Risen!
Incognitus

I'm certainly glad to see that +Metropolitan Anthony did this!!

Christ is Risen!
Truly He is Risen!

Dear Incognitus,

Most certainly St. Nektarios of Aegina did indeed do this, but no one is able to confirm what the duties this nun performed actually were after she was ordained. Feminists who point to this claim "deaconal!". Traditionalists scream in equal rage. All fall silent is asked whether the saint actually ordained the lady to the order of the deaconesses as the ancient order existed, in which case she may have carried out those cannonically described functions, and no more. And as she was already a nun, and had a nun's tonsure, she may not have been tonsured a reader first, although I am uncertain as to how the deaconesses order worked. I will consult my copy of the canons.

Gaudior, wondering if perhaps Alice came across this in her research?

Christ is Risen!

Do mind explaining your reasons?

Justin

Christos Voskrese!
Voistinu Voskrese!

Dear Justin,

Perhaps because he is OCA, and the membership of the OCA will swell as people leave the GOA when their hierarchs show so much disdain for the Canons that they tonsure women?

Gaudior, who REALLY takes issue with this...

So far as is known, Saint Nectarios ordained the woman (who was indeed a nun) to the rank of SUBDEACON, not to the order of deaconess. The Saint favored the restoration of deaconesses, but did not feel able to act unilaterally to that extent.
Christ is Risen!
Incognitus

Christ is Risen!
Truly He is Risen!

Many thanks, Incognitus!

This issue has frequently come up, as you can imagine, and the Typikon Listserve recently had a discussion about it. St. Nektarios was brought up, as was this particular tonsure, with someone claiming that the Antiochians intended to restore the order of the deaconesses. Several Greeks on the list said that in Greece and in other places (the Coptic Church) this had occurred, but their role was different. The Copts use them not in a liturgical sense but in some service sense, community care, which is closer to the canonical function. But no one seemed aware of the purpose St. Nektarios intended.

Once again, many thanks for bringing your vast knowledge to bear on this!

My new theory: Incognitus is the editor-in-chief of a religious encyclopedia....oh...wait..that is Alex...

Gaudior, enlightened

Gaudior,

My theory is that we may never know. A recent post by him on another thread completely dashed my newest (and, until then, very factually well-supported) theory.

Many years,

Neil

Actually, I find myself more willing to accept RESTORATION of the order of deaconess than CREATION of the order of female subdeacon.

Deaconess had its time-honored and gender-specific role in the baptism of females, visitation of females at home, etc. etc. I am not opposed to its restoration, given approval by an ecumenical council, but only if it were clear that it would not be a bow to feminism. Unfortunately, the greatest proponents of a female deaconate are also often the greatest proponents of a female priesthood. That is something clearly prohibited by scripture and canon.

So it looks like the RESTORATION of deaconess may suffer because of the attempt to CREATE priestesses.

In the Risen Christ,
Andrew

PS: Female Tonsured Readers fall into the realm of the CREATED versus the RESTORED.

My new theory is that Incognitus is a victim of severe amnesia and that even he himself does not know his real name, thus the selection of "incognitus."

Gaudior,

I am assuming you were present or how else would you know that Met. Anthony used the above prayer to tonsure Eve Tibbs? Do not women who enter the monastic state receive tonsure without the prayer, "This is the first step in the priesthood"?