www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Questions from an Ignorant Roman

Hello and thank you for taking the time to read my post; I'm a Roman Catholic who feels compelled to the Byzantine rite, and I have some questions along the way.

I was going to attend the Divine Liturgy at a Ukranian Byzantine Church yesterday, however when I got there I found out they had switched times around yesterday, so I came towards the end of the only Liturgy for the day. I was peeking through the doors, and I saw a woman who appeared to be wearing a robe (what I would refer to as an alb) and she was holding something that seemed like a paten... I was wondering what the correct role for women is in the Byzantine Liturgy? What is acceptable etc.

Also, where could I go to find something like a "Baltimore Catechism" for the Byzantine rite? Something that would break things down so I could learn more about the Divine Liturgy, and the beliefs of the Eastern Catholics, etc.

Yes I know the Eastern Catholics are just as Catholic as the Western ones... hopefully you understand what I am getting at though.

God bless,
Danielle

Dear Danielle,

The correct role for women is anywhere BUT behind the iconostasis or anywhere near the altar.

Alex

Hey Alex - who got out of bed the wrong side this morning ? You forgot the rest of Danielle's questions.

Welcome Danielle - just ask your questions and the folk here will do their best to answer them - not me though - I'm Latin and still at the early learner stage.

BTW you are not ignorant - never say that - you have just found something new and your need for knowledge wants satisying.

Let the education continue

Angela

[ someone please remind me to use that perishing preview button !! ]

Dear Angela,

I didn't forget - I don't know!

And we don't allow women into the Sanctuary, although I do admit they look a lot better than men in those flowing robes.

Alex

Dear Danielle,

I can't recommend a catechism per se but I would recommend, Byzantine Daily Worship by Bishop Joseph Raya and Jose Devinck. This is a great prayer book and a general resource on Eastern practices. I have found it invaluable in gaining some knowledge and insight into Eastern liturgy/ spirituality/ praxis, etc.

I've never seen a woman anywhere near the iconostasis or altar in a Byzantine rite catholic church, of whatever jurisdiction. Only in choir...

Could it have just looked like a woman...you know, one of those traditional priests / deacons with really long hair, etc?

God bless,
John

Dear John,

Where can one obtain Byzantine Daily Worship
by Bishop Raya?

Thank you.

Michael

I wonder whether there has been a bit of a misunderstanding here.

Danielle - may I ask a question ?

You said :- I was peeking through the doors, and I saw a woman who appeared to be wearing a robe (what I would refer to as an alb) and she was holding something that seemed like a paten...

To which doors where you referring ?

Angela

Dear MM,
I got mine from Light and Life publishing company. Here's the link: www.light-n-life.com [light-n-life.com]

It's a wonderful prayerbook with all the liturgical offices for the Byzantine Rite.

God bless,
John

Thanks for the warm welcome

The "doors" I am referring to, were simply the doors between the vestibule and the nave of the church, as I did not go into the Church proper.

Last week when I had gone to the Melkite Byzantine Church, there was a woman that read the reading, and held the lectionary (is that what it is called in the east?) up for the priest. Afterwards she came and sat in the pew in front of me.... is something like that allowed? As far as what was going on at the Church yesterday, I can't say, since I was only peeking in like I said above.

Thank you so far for all your help!!!!!!
Danielle

Before some of the REAL scholars of our Forum beat me to it, let me suggest you have a gander at the website of St. Elias parish near Toronto.

http://www.saintelias.com/

There might be some useful stuff in the "rough guide" section...

Years ago (now) Archimandrite Robert Taft, S.J. wrote a nice little pamphlet concerning the Eastern Churches of the Catholic Communion. There may be still copies around.

For more ecclesiological questions anything by Archbishop Elias Zoghby of Baalbek is great.

And complete (now Archbishop Kallistos) Timothy Ware's "Orthodox Church" for an introduction to the Eastern Churches.

Herb

Hi Danielle,

Welcome to the forum. I hope you will be happy with the cyber home the Lord has led you to. We always enjoying sharing our faith.

Your statement
>>>Last week when I had gone to the Melkite Byzantine Church, there was a woman that read the reading, and held the lectionary (is that what it is called in the east?)<<<

As a Ruthenian in a Melkite parrish, this shook me a little. There are some Melkite churches that do have a choir, as do the Ruthenains. The Melkite Church I attend has men who have been set aside as Readers, I believe this to be the correct tradition of the Melkite Church. Again, I only consider it correct that the Gospel is held by the readers or alter servers, and is done so over their heads as they stand in front of the priest. St. Georges was blessed to Archbishop Raya as its pastor for many years when it was a young church, so it is was led to be very strict to it's traditions. I do so hope what you are saying is not so.

Anyway at this, I hope you enjoy your transition into the eastern church. Since you are looking at a Melkite Church, you might find this site helpful. http://www.melkite.org/ It is the official site for the eparchy. It has a lot of information about the prayers and traditions of the church. If you notice the pictures on Baptism and Holy Week those are of St. Georges.

This is exactly what the woman did at the Melkite Church that I had visited last week. Also there were no kneelers at this Church, is that the norm? I noticed they did kneel at the Ukranian Church that I was peeking in on.

I'm not necessarily looking into the Melkite rite, but have been looking for a Byzantine Church that offers the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom in english. Ideally I would love to visit Annunciation Byzantine Catholic Church in Homer Glen IL, but until we have a more reliable car we just can't track out that far.

Again, thank you for all the information and warm greetings. I was shy about posting here but am glad that I did.

Kneelers are commonly found in Latin Churches, but not in Byzantine Churches since kneeling is, generally, prohibited on Sundays. Kneeling was introduced into the Byzantine Churches in the United States through a process known as Latinization. This process is being reversed as we return to our own traditions, and so those churches that do have kneelers should be removing them.

There are some Melkite parishes that have women who do the readings, although it is more traditional for men who have been blessed by the bishop to serve in the office of Reader. It is normative for the deacon to proclaim the Gospel, and the priest will do so only when there is no deacon. In my Melkite parish I proclaim the Gospel in English and another person proclaims it in Arabic (I still can't read Arabic well enough to do this, even after three years of serving the Melkites).

Edward, deacon and sinner

Father Deacon Ed,
I assure you that your statement about the origin of kneeling in our churches is not correct.

Would you care to enlighten us as to the origin of this practice within the Byzantine Catholic churches?