www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Questions from an Ignorant Roman

I have attended some Antiochian and Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox Parishes which also kneel at the Epiclesis.
Against the Canons but it is popular piety as well.
in my OCA parish, everyone responds Amen to the prayers and makes a deep "poklon" or "metania" but don't kneel.

Isn't there a tradition of kneeling proper to the East independent of any latinization influences?

I have been to Orthodox churches (OCA)where everyone seems to kneel during most if not all of the anaphora and then around the Our Father too. I actually witnessed this at St Tikhon's monastery in PA during a divine liturgy I attended there.

My understanding about all of this is that when our ancestors came to this country, they either were offered or rented space in other folks' churches. Thus, they came to understand what "church" in this country was all about. And so when the time came to build a new church (and, let's face it: all the architects were probably westerns) they 'bought' the full package. Some of the stuff was natural; some of it was "strange" but considered 'necessary' in the US. Like stained glass. Or pews. Or holy water fonts. Or statues out on the lawn. So, our forebears "accommodated" themselves to the American (=Western Church) lifestyle; let's face it: they were REAL gutsy people who abandoned a harsh but familiar life to strike out to make a better life for themselves and - especially - their children in the New World.

So, if we go back to the 'old style', I don't think that the older members of our parish family would object too strenuously. They're pretty flexible folks. God love 'em all!!

Blessings!

(But I still don't see my Greek compatriots' fascination with Hammond (electronic) organs. I LOVE pipe organs - they are pure and sonorous, but they overwhelm choirs. And the Greeks, non-singers as they are, just wanted something to keep the mezo-alto-sopranino-basses in the same key as the priest and everybody else. Unfortunately, this did not often occur. -- Thus, GOD BLESS THE UKRAINIANS, who can invent - on the spot - an 8 part harmony to sing the Jersey City phone book. And NOT miss a note!!)

I have been to Serbian parishes also where there is kneeling for the Epiclesis and sometimes during the Our Father.

But I have never seen kneeling from the Holy, Holy, Holy in the Orthodox Churches until the Theotokion as is done even still in some Byzantine Catholic parishes.

MM-you might want to also try Icon and Book Service in Washington DC for books. Elaine is very helpful and you are helping to support an outreach of a Byzantine (Ukrainian) Catholic monastery when you purchase from them.

All of the older wooden Greek Catholic churches I have set foot in in NE Slovakia, SE Poland and Transylvanian Romania all had benches or pews, benches appearing older.

I think that the book "Our People" by Magocsi makes the point that many of the first churches were built by the people, "our people." These would have been built according to the patterns the people knew from Europe.

Shlomo (Peace) Danielle,

Just to correct a misunderstanding that you have. Eastern Catholicism is made up of four Traditions. They are Alexandrian, Antiochene-Edessan (which is further divided into Western and Eastern Branches), Armenian, and Byzantine.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon