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Chaplet During a Bad Sermon
On all the beads, say:
"Dear God, when will it end?!"



Dave

Or as a parody on a classic country song that I find myself thinking at a critical point in Latin Rite Liturgies,

"Take your peace and shove it,
I ain't coming here no more."

But, the bad thing about being an organist in a Latin Rite Church is that I often hear sermons 2 or more times. Unlike a good story, most of them don't get better from being heard a second time. I have gotten really good at slipping out of the organ loft and returning just in time for the Creed.

Sorry to be so slow to "get it".

I should have picked up on it earlier; it wasn't until Diak re-iterated Sam's comment, which I didn't get at all, that I figured out that something was way off. Where was this nashupremacy idea coming from?

Oh, so then I look back and see that I responded to a post of Jennifer's that had two parts that I just hadn't connected.

A part on questions and opinions. Questions are, as I never unwelcome, and to avoid jeopardy it's often a good idea to state opinions in that form. I still adhere to the point that not all opinions deserve equal weight. But now I see that in context - connecting with the other part - I must have given a terrible misunderstanding of what I consider weighty.

Jennifer had also in that post mentioned here own experience as an "outsider" being more "welcomed" in Orthodoxy; with ECC's being more of an ethnic club. I suppose I should have commented on this, but I didn't, because I really have no idea of her experience - apart from a visit to Homer Glen, which I wouldn't expect to be particuarly ethnic or unwelcoming. So I didn't give those comments much consideration.

But I am deeply embarrassed to have given the impression - by not clearly separating the two parts - that I in any way would ndorse "weighting" opinion by enthnicity or even length of tenure. My point - weighting scholarship with real facts and rigorous inferences, and discounting unseemly agendas - might be pompous, but in no way did I mean it to be supportive of nashupremacy. Not in the slightest. Indeed my point is in direct opposition to such a perspective, because that too is biased and uninformed. I am embarrassed by this gaffe.

Do I have any bonafides after 1000 posts? I have probably quoted Fr. Taft more extensively than anyone, and hold him as an exemplar of scholarly opinion on ECC's. I have supported bi-ritual priests who were under attack for their Latin origin.

And I cannot recall, but if I have ever said anything that gave even the slightest discomfort to an EC convert, qua convert, I apologize with bitterest regret. Because I love my church, I am grateful to you all. So while I might disagree with, say for example, DanL on just about everything political, I would never want to express anything but gratitude for his presence in, and his hard work on behalf of the BCC which is surely his as much as my church. And that applies to all, cradle, convert, visitor.

djs and diak,
'nashupremacy'
I like that term, LOL. Never heard that one before!
As for my bad experience- I've spent most of my life in "Old Country" > NJ and PA. I've seen the nashupremacy in many places. If you have not had the same experience, it could mean you live outside "OLd Country" and things are much better there- which is indeed hopeful!
Peace,
Sam

I have (somewhere in this house) a Ruthenian Typicon which has the instructions for 'Liturgy with simple ceremony' that was traditionally served when there were few or no 'sacred ministers' to assist. It is a remarkable document because it retains all the essentials while eliminating the processions and
'cathedral rituals and rites' that were/are the ordinary manner of serving in the Byzantine Church of 800 AD to the present. Personally, I think that (for daily Liturgies at least sometimes) some of this is simply practical. I have had the experience many times during my priesthood of serving for a few people in a livingroom or retreat setting...when the ordinary rite just doesn't work and when it seems almost silly to be trying to carry out the Russian Typicon of 1946 that was for a different setting and meant for a basilica or for Haghia Sophia. I much admire the Ruthenian and Ukrainian forefathers (hierarchs) who recognized the need for another form for our Liturgy on such occasions as mentioned above. As one Greek presbyteria said once to me: "So much fuss to made God present Father...where is our faith?" Maybe I'm just getting old...but it seems to me that we need a simplified form of our Liturgy for such occasions.

Humbly in His Holy Name,
+Fr. Gregory

Dear Fr. Gregory,

Bless!

I haven't heard of this typikon, can you tell me more about it?

Tony

Father Gregory,

Is this what you are talking about?

http://www.patronagechurch.com/Ordo-English-1955/27S.htm

Dave

Dave, Dern you're good! That's it exactly. (and I still can't find my copy)

In Him,
+Fr. Gregory

Fr. Gregory,

Not to contradict, but you will notice the Ruthenian Typicon's simple rite does not surpress the Little or Great Entrances but only the procession to throne, allowing the priest to remain at the Holy Table for the Epistle. This and the allowance for not using incense is really the only noticeable difference between simple and solemn rites. That said I do concur with you that certain situations and locations require the simplification of our rites.

Deacon Lance

You left out one item Father Lance! The whole Liturgy is RECITED. Also in another section of the typicon it states that at the Little Entrance, the priest may simply elevate the Gospel book rather than make the procession.

A blessed St. Philip's Fast to you Father...and a joyful celebration of the Nativity of Our Lord According to the Flesh!

Your poor brother in Christ,
+Fr. Gregory

Fr. Gregory, you have indeed correctly read the instructions for that section of the Ordo...
Keep us in your prayers!
The sinful subdeacon Randolph

Fr. Gregory,

Leave it to me to leave out the most obvious difference! I never noticed the section refering to simple elevation of the Gospel either, thank you for mentioning it. A blessed Fast and joyous Nativity to you as well good Father.

Deacon Lance

Unfortunately, I have witnessed "Low Liturgies" back in the late 1970's - early "80's where the chalice and diskos were brought directly to the altar at the beginning of the liturgy and thus no
Great or Small entrances were made. But then again like most post-Elko era Ruthenian churches, we didn't even have an Iconostas back then either! It wasn't uncommon to have a 20-23 minute liturgy.

Ung-Certez

In 1946, at Pascha, His Holiness, Patriarch Alexey of Moscow set forth a general set of directives for the 'Interior decor of God's temple' and for the 'Divine Services' of the Russian Orthodox Church. Much of this can be seen and read in the 'Abridged Typicon' edited by Father Feodor Kovalchuk (2nd Edition, St. Tikhon's Seminary Press, 1985).

In His Holy Name,
+Fr. Gregory