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Slava Isusu Christu!

AS per the actions of His Holiness, I think the Pope is getting ready to grant the SSPX a sui juris status, and eventually set them up with a Metropolitan Archbishop, and eventually a Patriarch--since it is clear that the Pope is wanting to "solve" the problem with the canonical status of the SSPX and traditional Latin Catholics in general. He might also grant the Anglican Use Catholics a sui juris Church. I am speculating, but this could be a move to allow sui juris Churches (East and West) that do not have Patriarchates to have a greater chance at actualizing this possibility in the West.

This is an exciting age we live in where the Pope is creating structures to bring the unity to the Body of Christ, and not just giving lip-service to unity.

Many Years to His Holiness!

In Christ,

Robert

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Robert,

You make some excellent points there, and you've now got me excited as well. smile

Alice,

You say:
Quote
The Patriarch of a united Orthodox church in the U.S. (which I highly doubt will happen in my lifetime) would probably be Patriarch of North and South America or something like that.
That's true, but the general point I was making is just that North and South America are "Western"; the title of "Patriarch of the West" would suggest some conflict there if there were also an American Patriarch.

I still like Robert's explanation better than my own, though.

Also, perhaps it's something as mundane as the fact that "Patriarch of the West" is rather vague. We have Patriarchs of Antioch, Constantinople, etc., but "West" is not really place. smile Maybe something as boring as that is in mind, too.

God bless,
Maximos

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Catholic News Agency's take on the rationale for dropping "Patriarch of the West" title:

Quote
Holy Father drops traditional papal title in effort to show universality of papacy


Full story .

Amado wink

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Dear Amado,

Fix your link! smile

Thanks,
Alice

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I found the original link that Amando was trying to put up.

Try this: CWNews Story [cwnews.com]

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+


Everyone baptized into Christ should pass progressively through all the stages of Christ's own life, for in baptism he receives the power so to progress, and through the commandments he can discover and learn how to accomplish such progression. - Saint Gregory of Sinai
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Sorry, Alice, and thanks Fr. Anthony for fixing it!

Time to edit elapsed. biggrin

Amado

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Originally posted by Father Anthony:
I found the original link that Amando was trying to put up.

Try this: CWNews Story [cwnews.com]

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Kudos to the comments of Archpriest in the link.

Andrew

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Ooops!

On second reading, Fr. Anthony linked the wrong story.

Here it is:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=6137

Amado shocked

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Slava Isusu Christu!

Maximos,

This has been all the buzz at angelqueen and other places. Speculation is always a tricky deal, but it actually appears that HH Benedict is really working on using the fulness of His power to regulate the brokenness in Churches, movements, or ecclesial communities that left the "official" Church for whatever reason.

His Holiness is very wise to take so much interest in using His immediate authority to resolve these issues in His pontificate.

As a Byzantine Catholic I will probably see the SSPX have a patriarchate before my Metropolitan Ruthenian Church sui juris, but let us see--this is the season for divine surprise.

In Christ,

Robert

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As a Latin Catholic from Lisbon I have some doubts about all this.
Supposing HH is thinking of raising the Anglicans and SSPX etc to patriarchal Sui Iuris status, what will happen to the Patriarch of Lisbon?
Up till now, everybody has understood that the Patriarch of Lisbon is only a titular patriarch because, above him, he had the Patriarch of the West.
If the Patriarch of the West ceases to be used, and others within the body of the Latin church are raised to patriarchal status, will the Patriarch of Lisbon (and venice etc) be at an equal level with the new patriarchs?
Over the years, new patriarchs have been dropping some of the patriarchal symbols... could we be heading for the extinction of the title?

Just a note, I don't believe that King John wanted a patriarch "because Spain had one". Not that the rivlry didn't exist, (it still does) but the "rival" of the spanish West Indies Patriarchate was the Patriarch of Goa. So the Portuguese actually had two patriarchs and not only one.

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National Episcopal Conferences ahve been running their own church affairs like Eastern Synods since Vatican II. Those who did not have a Episcopal Conference were to get one off the ground at the time and they were to meet regularly. So the Bishops of the Australian Catholic Church which includes 3 Oriental Rite bishops meet 2x a year in Sydney. The Indonesian Catholic Church have their meetings as well. They never had the East Timor Church which was kept directly under Rome during the occupation. At least the Patriarchs of Lisbon, Venice and Jerusalem are more than just titular as they have Metropolitan Archdiocese under them. Dont know about the Patriarch of the East Indies and who that is these days. We have heard the West Indies has been vacant for some years. The East Indies Patriarchate based in Goa was created later as a counterpoint to the West Indies Patriarchate. How this see fits into the Episcopal conference of modern India would be interesting to know.

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NIKA

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Quote
Originally posted by Filipe YTOL:
Just a note, I don't believe that King John wanted a patriarch "because Spain had one". Not that the rivlry didn't exist, (it still does) but the "rival" of the spanish West Indies Patriarchate was the Patriarch of Goa. So the Portuguese actually had two patriarchs and not only one.
Filipe:

the honorary title "Patriarch of the East Indies" was only given to the Archbishop of Goa in 1886, which is a more "recent" development than the honorary titles , "Patriarch of Lisbon" or "Patriarch of the West Indies."

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I beleive the Patriarchate of the East Indies has been vacante since the indian union invasion of Goa in 1961... or rather, since the death of whoever was patriarch at the time. (my father knows his name by heart, he was well known and respected, an imposing figure, I'll try and find it after lunch...)
Filipe

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I was able to do some checking and the title "ad honorem" is still attached to the Archdiocese of Goa. This was restated with the apointments of the Indian Archbishops of Goa by Pope Paul and Pope John Paul II.

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Quote
Originally posted by Deacon John Montalvo:
Quote
Originally posted by Filipe YTOL:
[b] Just a note, I don't believe that King John wanted a patriarch "because Spain had one". Not that the rivlry didn't exist, (it still does) but the "rival" of the spanish West Indies Patriarchate was the Patriarch of Goa. So the Portuguese actually had two patriarchs and not only one.
Filipe:

the honorary title "Patriarch of the East Indies" was only given to the Archbishop of Goa in 1886, which is a more "recent" development than the honorary titles , "Patriarch of Lisbon" or "Patriarch of the West Indies." [/b]
Patriarch of the East Indies. that does sound rather exotic. I wonder at times if there are people whose job it is is to come up with exotic titles.
Much Love,
Jonn

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