www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology How to equate 8 & 11, liturgically speaking

I seem to recall Fr David Petras addressed this question during the course of formation, but quite honestly, I'll need to consult my notes. I do remember he stated that Matinal Resurrection Gospels are independent of the Octoechos.

Fr David would be able to provide a far more interesting response.

Well - I'm glad it's not just me that has got fascinated by this

I have to admit that I like the idea of the 11 Apostles left after the Betrayal - but was that the reason ? Somehow it seems a wee bit contrived - it fits but .......

It's just that it suddenly struck me and I started wondering

Thanks for the ideas so far

Anhelyna

Dear Anhelyna,

A belated "Thank you" for the response. I have been out of town and so am out of kilter. In fact, I'm not entirely sure I can blame it on the trip out of town.... I have been a little out of kilter for a while now. Any prayers are appreciated.

Peace in Christ to all here, Tammy

Deacon John Montalvo quoted me as saying that there are two independent systems - the eight tones and the eleven gospels, and he is correct in that - the two systems are independent. It helps explain the complexity of the Orthros Typicon. I certainly wish I could give an obvious response so that one could say "Aha, that's why there are eleven gospels! - but, alas, I can't. First, please note that there are actually 12 resurrection gospels, Matthew 28:1-15 is not read at Matins, but is read once a year at the Paschal Vigil Liturgy (Vespers nad the Liturgy of St. Basil). This fits in with the predominance of the Gospel of Matthew at the evening services of Holy Week. It, therefore, has a privileged position, and the other eleven are read throughout the year. The resurrection accounts do divide quite nicely, therefore, into twelve accounts, and perhaps this fit in well with the idea of twelve apostles, whose function was precisely to witness to the resurrection. The twelve corresponding Passion Gospels are not so neatly divided, and perhaps were designed to reflect the number of the twelve resurrection gospels.

Bless, Father David,

I think you are absolutely correct - this is tied in with the symbolic significance of the number "12."

This number is the number of the Apostles or the foundation of the Church of the New Testament (and the 12 sons of Israel, the OT).

The Rule of St Pachomius also prescribed 12 Psalms to be prayed at the turn of every hour etc.

And the fact that one of the Gospels is prayed once a year at Pascha - this seems to signify the celebration of Pascha as the one Great Day of the year - and its celebration throughout the year as well, every Sunday being a "little Easter."

Alex

A couple of points here:

The Mattins Resurrection Gospel and the liturgical elements surrounding it originated in a Sunday vigil of the Jerusalem church, well described by the pilgim Egeria.

The Armenian Rite, which retains some old Jerusalem customs, has only four readings, one from each of the Evangelists.

While the Eothina cycle as we now have it is distinct from the Octoechos cycle, it appears that once it was part of it; the first eight of the eleven Gospels come with hymns assigned to the eight tones in sequence.

So it seems to me that there was originally a four-week cycle, as in the Armenian Church to the present day; then, after the eight-week cycle was introduced (also in Jerusalem, but several centuries later than the Resurrection Vigil), the readings were divided in two and incorporated into this new cycle; and finally there was another reorganization into a cycle of eleven weeks. Why this last was undertaken I don't know; there was no eleven-week cycle except for these Gospels and assciated chants, in contrast to the eight-week cycle, which affected almost all the services.

Stephen

I have a vague recollection that the issue of the 11 Orthros Gospels was addressed in an "academic aside" in Sebastia Janeras' work on Holy Friday in the Byzantine Tradition. I don't expect to be able to check that out in the forseeable future, but it would be worth clarifying.