www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Help please in search of an Icon

I wonder if anyone can help confirm this URL give to me by Orthodox Catholic .[ What a fund of information he has and always so patient ]

He suggested www.bridgebuildingicons.com [bridgebuildingicons.com]
as a possiblity for an Icon of Dame/Mother Julian of Norwich . Unfortunately I have not been able to access it. Frustration has set in.

Since reading Revelations of Divine Love almost 3 years ago I have been enthralled by this book and the writer.

If bridgebuildingicons no longer exists can you suggest another site ?

May Our Blessed Lady, Mother of us all, keep you in her tender care.

Angela

[This message has been edited by Our Lady's slave of love (edited 07-22-2001).]

The new address of the web site you are looking for is http://www.wowpages.com/bbi/home.html

Try going to www.natural-bridges.com [natural-bridges.com] . This is the same site that used to be called bridgeguildingicons.com . They do have an icon of Dame Julian...I just checked to be sure

Don

www.natural-bridges.com [natural-bridges.com] .

Dear Don,

Thank you for that URL - can't get it at present but will try again later

Dear wxhaz -- thank you so much What a site - more than I expected.


What would we do without such helpful folk ?

May Our Lady ,Mother of us all, keep you both in her tender care.

Angela

Two cautions:
1. Julian of Norwich has never been recognized by the Church nor have her writings received any approval. In fact, while i have never read her writings, Anthony Dragani has and he has commented some of it is very offensive to Eastern Christians, especialy her views on married priests.

2. Mr. Lenz and Natural Bridges have some very heterodox icons. Some of his work is very good and orthodox, while others are just New Age wackiness. He made an "icon" of Merlin of Authurian legend. What is that all about? I don't know how comfortable anyone is supporting a group with such heterdox nonsense, but that is the individuals decision. They do have some western saints I haven't seen elsewhere.
Just use discernment.

In Christ,
Lance, deacon candidate

Dear Lance,

Yes , I take your points. However 'Revelations' was given to me by my Spiritual Director and I do trust him . He is very careful which books he suggests - the eyebrows went up when I suggested Thomas Merton - so I shut up. His description of this particular work was "a classic" and it has certainly ironed out a good few of my problems. The section on the Motherhood of God did bring me to the practice of Confession - which for a convert can be a very big stumbling block.

An Icon of Merlin -- oh yes the hairs on the back of my neck certainly rose and bristled !!

By the way this Western/Latin convert really ,personally speaking ,does not have a problem with married priests - probably because of my background , but I obey the Church's teaching.

Your comments and warning are certainly heeded. Thank you

May our Blessed Mother, Mother of us all , keep you in her tender care.

Angela

Dear Angela,

St Julian of Norwich is a local saint of the Catholic Church and her local cult has the full approval of the Church.

Whether we call her "Saint" or "Blessed" is of no real concern since in her time there was no distinction between the terms and they were used interchangeably.

There are many saints in the Roman Church whose lives and writings have been forgotten and some of them are just beginning to reemerge such as St Julian of Norwich.

Although Merlin is not someone whose cult I would practice or recommend, Lentz has an uncanny way of reaching out to people through his icons that reflect many social and other concerns, as well as the multicultural and multi-faith reality of today's society.

At the Legislature, I was privileged to organize a "Martin Luther King Jr." day celebration. I placed Lentz's icon of Martin on a stand and this drew the attention of everyone in the room.

Later, conversations began about the Eastern Church and Eastern Orthodoxy. I still get calls from those visitors two years ago about Eastern Christian literature they can buy and read. Two of these are, I believe, preparing to enter the Church.

His HOliness the Pope recognized the martyrdom of Martin Luther King (without beatifying him). I have no problem with his icon on my icon wall and if it and others help bring people to Christ and His Church, then more power to you, Robert Lentz!

Alex

Dear Alex,

How I agree with you about the lives and writings which are beginning to reemerge.

Also, who knows what it is that will act as a stimulus and bring them to the practice of Christianity , no matter which branch. Yes we may prefer our own deeply held beliefs and practices but we should allow others to come, in the fullness of time , to where their heart leads them. For some this journey will be short and for others it will take many years.

May Our Blessed Mother keep you in her tender care.
Angela

GLORY TO JESUS CHRIST!
GLORY TO HIM FOREVER!

Speaking from an iconographer's point of view, Mr. Lentz and Fr. McNichol's use of color, shading and style is among the best in this country. IMHO, they are only rivaled by some of the iconographers from Russia and Ukraine.

I have several of their books that I use as guide to help me with my own work. They're great as a teaching aid but as for veneration.... well, that's another issue altogether.

the ikon writer
mark

H'mmmm . Thank you for that response. It raises a few other points/problems in my mind that could do with elucidation. Instead of taking up a lot of space on this forum would you allow me to e-mail you? The advice of an iconographer in this case would be most helpful .

May Our Blessed Lady, Mother of us all keep you in her tender care.

Angela

Mark brings up good points.

I think there's a real issue - how d'ya get AFFORDABLE, reasonably decent icons of post-schism saints from sources where you don't need to exorcise 'em before ya bless 'em?

I don't think there's a good answer right now, tho' Fr. Basil at Holy Resurrection is remarkably resourceful... I think it's likely that most of us have a couple of Bridge Builders and/or a couple of Monastery Icons (the McDonalds of Icons!) products in our collections.

Bless me Father, I confess to having both. Bridge Builders was the only place I could find Damien of Molokai, and St. Francis & the Divine Mercy were two that Monastery had & no one else did. Mind you, some of Bridge Builders icons make my skin crawl (our father among the saints Harvey Milk???) as do the religious affiliation (whatever it is this week) of Monastery Icons (along with their utter bland-ness) but they are **sigh** available.

Mind you, I get most of my stuff from St. Isaac's but some icons they just don't have.

Not sure what the answer is.

Cheers on a Hot, Humid, Hazy & Horrible Tuesday,

Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Dear Sharon,

You raise a very important point, that of venerating those whom we don't normally consider to be "saints."

Harvey Milk et al. would belong in that category, although I have met those who do indeed consider him very highly.

On the other hand, there are those who are officially inscribed on the calendars of Churches who some would argue shouldn't be there.

I once heard an argument that Alexander Nevsky shouldn't have been canonized (hands off the St Alexanders!). Others that St Andrew Bogoliubsky shouldn't be there either.

The Orthodox CHurch, however, has a number of categories of saints.

There are those who are just in the calendar but who have no public, liturgical cult prescribed in their honour.

A number of the Emperors were inscribed in the Calendar because of their efforts to defend the Church, but that is where their liturgical cult stops.

My point is that Lentz writes icons for groups for whom these individuals are important, even though their "cult" doesn't extend beyond those groups.

Lentz is now a Byzantine Catholic and he writes icons of both Eastern and Western Christian saints and individuals. The fact that he also writes icons of non-Christian heroes is something that has always been allowed (their cult) in the CHurch, and this was confirmed to my by John Meyendorff in a personal correspondence.

Alexander the Great is honoured as a prophet in Ethiopia and in Islam. And you ain't gonna get an argument about this from me!

Alex(ander)

+Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him Forever!

I couldn't decide whether to use the shocked/embarrassed smiley or the exclamation point "warning" sign to head my post. It's a mixture of all of them, I suppose.

I just went to the Natural Bridges website and looked through several of their icons and the accompanying commentaries. I have come to the conclusion that I cannot recommend these icons to anyone. While some of them seem very nice, others are questionable, and some are downright weird and heterodox (if I may say so). An icon called "Lord of the Dance"? An icon of Jalal Ud-din Runi, the founder of the Whirling Dervishes? An icon called "Celtic Trinity", featuring images of a "maiden, mother, and crone"? An icon of Sts. Serguis and Bacchus accompanied by a commentary saying studies show they were openly gay lovers? An icon called "Christ Sophia", which shows Christ as a woman, holding a "Venus of Willendorf" statue? What is going on??

The only way I can justify these images is to listen to what Alex says about using these images to reach out to people and help them to hear about Christ and His church. I suppose that is what is behind the name "Natural Bridges"...building a bridge to help people come closer to Christ. In that way I suppose these images can be useful. However, I really don't like all the new-agey and feminist-type stuff, and I would not buy from them.

I hope I haven't come across as too mean, but I was kind of shocked by the images I found on the website.

God bless you,
Liz

[This message has been edited by Liz (edited 07-24-2001).]

Dear Liz and all,

Now it is me that is embarrassed - I did not mean to stir up what is becoming a hornet's nest.

I was interested in the 2 icons of Julian of Norwich -the one of Julian and "the little thing" I found thought provoking as it had taken me a long time(the best part of a month) to have some slight glimmer as to the meaning of this.

Having said that I stand by my comment that we do not know what will be the trigger to start someone's journey.

I must say I do not like the New Age examples and find it difficult to describe them in acceptable language

To restore the direction of our thoughts try this site. www.sanctiangeli.org/icon.html [sanctiangeli.org]

I wish I could obtain some reproductions of these. I have a set of the cards mentioned and they are much appreciated.

Does anyone know a UK site on which I can find reproductions of icons?

May Our Blessed Lady , Mother of us all, keep us in her tender care.

Angela

Hi Angela

Please feel free to email me at home. I think my address is listed.

I'll do my best to answer any questions you may have.

the ikon writer
mark