www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization ???Too Many SPXers??

Dear Friend in Christ,

Yes, the SSPXers can be that way . . .

But the ones at my friend's parish are there to stay and they've become literally infected with Byzantinization.

They're into Akathists and Molebens in a big way.

My friend even had to remind them not to give up the Rosary .

The only Latin thing left about them is there penchant for Crossing themselves to the left first.

But then the Oriental Orthodox do that too!

Alex

Hi Mark:


Not me. I totally agree with you.

Traditional Roman Catholics have the right to be, well, traditional. But they have the duty, above all, to remain Catholic no matter what.

SSPX-ers not only go as far as breaking with their own Church, but they go and disrupt the legitimate traditions of other Catholic Churches.

I don't think this should be tolerated.

Please do keep in mind, however, that appreciating the true beauty of Church Slavonic might be well beyond the ability of most people who only speak English

Shalom,
Memo.

Posting Memo

Well, our former SSPXers at my friend's parish not only have learned the liturgy in Ukrainian, some of them are even starting to speak English with a Slavic accent . . .

Is that BC outreach or what?

Alex

Thank you for all your comments. The bottom line is that I know we are not alone with this problem in our parish. Some of you do seem to be handling the situation quite well.

Let us pray for one another.

:p

Today at work I speaking with another Catholic,
of the Roman Rite, who attends a very modern
parish -- brass bands etc. The parish priest even warns people before joining that it may not be their cup of tea. I got to thinking about the
SPXers, and I kind of feel sorry for them. Where are they to go in most cities and find a service they feel comfortable with? Not everyone adjusted to the changes of Vatican II.
Can you imagine if the Bishops came to the Byzantine parishes and announced the icon screens and tetrapod had to be removed? If they moved the altar from the east end of the church to the south end? etc etc?

Perhaps the kindest thing for the Church to do for these folks is to allow some very traditional churches. The above co-worker knows of a more traditional church in our city that the SPXers would probably feel comfortable in. When they come to our Byz church we could diplomatically suggest they may like parish XYZ better.
Just a thought.
denise

I feel like I'm at an AA meeting or something...

I was a former parishoner of an SSPX parish for awhile in a past life (gasp!), and now I'm approaching diaconal ordination for the Ukrainian Catholic Church. I have been labelled by my own people on multiple occasions as "duzhe vostochne". Miracles can and do happen

By the power of the Holy Spirit even the hardest hearts can be warmed to the riches of the Christian East...but there must be respect of our Eastern tradition by these folks.

Often once good catechesis is explained to them with regards to our tradition, liturgy, spirituality, etc. it can do wonders and make them real "believers". We should welcome everyone, but make them conscious of our identity and tradition. Not all will respect that, unfortunately. And there are those of this SSPX crowd that will continue to make trouble until they get things "their way", especially with regards to kneeling, Filioque, Stations, pews, etc.

[ 08-06-2002: Message edited by: Diak ]

Brian!
Thats my parish! here's the deal. We moved last spring (2001) to La Mesa because the area where OLPH was is a very dangeruous area. Our priest was mugged 4 times, once at gun point. With the move to La Mesa and dedication of the new building, we are now under the patronage of St. John the Baptizer. The old Winona church is now a Ethiopian Mulsim Mosque.

Well the most famous Fr. Andrew Mykyta died last year in Chicago. His cousin, Fr. Myron Mykyta is now pastor, who is also very Eastern and married. So our church is very Eastern now in appearance and in thinking and worship as far as the Ukrainian side of the parish goes. We are so Eastern that there was a huge pull to not have any pews but the Tridentine crowd got really angry and sent a nasty letter to Chicago. We have pews now.

They get mad at everything. Ask ALity about what happened after our dedication. They were yelling at Bishop Michael about the removal of the Filioque.

The same Tridentine crowd is still there causing a stink everytime something that is slightly new to them is introduced. It really devides the parish.

On the first Sunday of every month, we have a combined bi-lingual Liturgy at 9 am. They get very angry when we do to much in Ukrainian. They want it all in English. WHAT A COINCIDENCE. They hated the change to English in the West and wanted it to be in a language that they don't even understand. Heresy they claim! But now woe on us who do to much Ukrainian in a UKRAINIAN parish. Who founded the church? Plus we have many new immagrants who don't know English yet. Very frustrating. Also when in the Liturgy the word "Being" is sung, like "the Trinity one in Being" etc. about 4 of them yell out SUBSTANCE! Rude and not what our texts and translations call for. they have done this at baptisms and funerals.

We also started a BIble study which is highly opposed because we invited the Ukrainian Orthodox parishioners to come. They came out with all of their propoganda like usual. They were allotted 15 minutes at the beginnuing to discuss the Dogma of Scriptures but they lied to the whole parish because all they talked about was communist priests and the sucidal Novus Ordo. Well anyways later on when the Bible study actually began, they twisted the Holy Scripture and started applying it to their Anti Catholic Anti Pope Anti Vatican II propoganda and started yelling at us about Communion in the Hand and Eccumenical Services and those outside of the church are damned to high hell. What does this have to do with Bible study? How does this further the growth of our parish? How does this further help church UNITY?

These Tridentine people with their hateful propoganda and false teachings and lies are splitting parishes and demeaning clergy and are out right rude to bishops. This is St. John the Baptizer Ukrainian Catholic Church 8:00 am Liturgy crowd. I am sorry but people acting like this does not help their cause nor does it make our church appealing to visitors.

But at the Ukrainian Liturgy, we are growing up to 40 a Sunday as opposed to 15-20. We are getting many new immagrants and new faces who are staying We are Eastern, we stand (and sit :rolleyes: ) but don't kneel, we have processions, we dropped the filioque, and we do everything pretty much what the Pope has called us to do, to go back to our pure Eastern Traditions, except we have pews

ukrainiancatholic

p.s. Sorry for the rant but today at the Transfiguration Liturgy, I just about had enough.

[ 08-06-2002: Message edited by: ukrainiancatholic ]

Was it St. Benedict who said something to the effect of taking a few of the stoutest monks and inviting troublemakers to leave? That might still be excellent advice.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by byzinroswell:

<<<an you imagine if the Bishops came to the Byzantine parishes and announced the icon screens and tetrapod had to be removed? If they moved the altar from the east end of the church to the south end? etc etc?<<<

Been there, done that. A few of the old-timers still have the T-shirt. Now we're trying to undo that, and our "traditionalists" buck at the goad when our bishops tell them to put back the icon screen, move the altar to the middle of the sanctuary, take down the stations, and start celebrating the Presanctified. For most people, "tradition" began on the day they were born.

It's better to understand that for most cradle BC's, "tradition" began with what they received about this church from their grandparents, parents, aunts, and uncles. Not from something they read in some book, like a certain kind of cook.

djs

[QUOTE]Originally posted by djs:
[qb]

>>>It's better to understand that for most cradle BC's, "tradition" began with what they received about this church from their grandparents, parents, aunts, and uncles. Not from something they read in some book, like a certain kind of cook.<<<

That's pretty much the same as saying that they have a solipsistic understanding of Tradition; i.e., as something that is limited solely to their experience, regardless of who instilled it in them. It tends to be narrow and parochial, and in many cases, not necessarily reflective of what Holy Tradition really is. Ya-yas and Babas are wonderful,and the Church would never have survived its persecution without them. But as Protopresybter Alexander Schmemann lamented in his diaries, they can also be the bane of the Church, holding up as holy writ some of the most arrant nonsense and incredible abuses (mental, spiritual and liturgical) as being the epitome of orthodox piety.

[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: StuartK ]

Dear Stuart,

Yes, djs did post that.

And your point is . . .?

Alex

Alex,

Maybe his response was accidentally(?) included in the quote?

[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: J Thur ]

Dear Joe,

As you see, it wasn't . . .

That's not like Stuart to do that.

If you don't know that, you don't yet know him

Have a nice day.

Alex

Thank you, Stuart, for editing your post thus clarifying what was your response.