www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Pope set to return to traditional liturgy

You are pretty correct brother Paul, the revision/tweaking/adjusting is going to be made to the Mass/Liturgy/Missal of HHPPVI.

james

Well then with all the talk of using Latin in the Mass, does that mean that I have to cease being a priest?
I am totally deficient in Latin, so I cannot, and at this stag of the game, will not use Latin.
Stephanos I

Come now, everyone can learn new things if they wish. I can see why you might not want to make the whole mass Latin (something we know is HIGHLY unlikely to happen) but to make certain parts Latin is not hard. Being a priest certainly you must have done and do some things in Latin, like the Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament among others. Hey, jus think of all the people in the congregation that will have to learn/relearn the Latin as well, I for one would relish it!

In His Name,
Stephen

I believe there should be the Latin Mass (NOvus Ordo or Tridentine) for those , who in the words of the Indult "have attachment" to it, but I don't see how one would go about imposing this in every Mass in parishes. It has been too long since the changes in the Roman Rite

I wouldn't mind seeing the Novus Ordo of Paul VI retired. Paul, in a sense, undermined the work of the Council which had already revised and promulgated the Vatican II mass. There was no call from the Council to create the Novus Ordo. The Vatican II mass was an organic development of the Tridentine mass and should have been left alone. On top of that, Paul completely overthrew the liturgical calendar and created a new one.

Stephanos,

If, as a young man, I could learn to serve Holy Mass in Latin and sing Tantum Ergo from the hymnal, you can learn enough Latin to offer the Eucharist. Don't worry, you can learn to read Latin from the liturgical books and prayer cards.

In nomine Patris, (+) et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen.

You're ready to go!

Paul

I disagree about blaming Pope Paul VI for liturgical abuses. Some priests, bishops and eager beaver lay persons hijacked the Roman liturgy as an overreaction to their dislike of the Tridentine rite.

Paul

Paul VI was not responsible for liturgical abuses. He was responsible for overthrowing the liturgy of Vatican II - the 1964 English/Latin missal that was in use in this country between the end of the Council and 1969.

Was there ever initially a time when the RC parishes did as the ethnic Orthodox parishes do, (when large enough to have more than one priest) and offer the Mass in the vernacular for most services, and have one Latin Mass each Sunday?

Gaudior, who never paid too much attention to these things...

What they did between 1964 and 1969 was the Roman Canon in Latin, with all other mass parts in English. The rubrics were not much different from the Tridentine, but the altars were turned to face the congregation.

byzanTN,

I never saw that practice. While I was in CA at that time it was Tridentine until I left in late 1968. In NM the altars were turned around and the Mass was in the vernacular.

My complaint about the change is extremely poor implementaion. For one thing the reformed Mass should have been phased in over a longer period of time. We would have far less "conservative" and "liberal" strife.

God bless you.

Paul, who wants a sprinkling of Latin in the Holy Mass.

Interesting. I have a copy of that missal, and what I stated is exactly what it called for. The bishop here at the time followed it faithfully. It kept the Tridentine readings, and mass parts, but the canon only was in Latin.

Hope it's soon, I shudder at hearing the words " In the name of the Creator, and of the Redeemer, and of the Holy Spirit ", Amen.

james

I think the real idea is to get back to the Novus Ordo as envisioned by V2. I've been noticing trends lately:

*moving the Tabernacle back to the center of the high altar (if there still is one) or at least to the center of the Sanctuary

*moving the presider's et al.'s chairs from behind the altar off to the side

However, the use of "popular" liturgical music still seems to have a hold... I don't particularly like the folk music, but that's more preference.

I wouldn't advocate a return to the Tridentine, but it would be great if the Church got the NO back to where it was supposed to be -- enough of this "gather around the altar" for Eucharist abuse; away with holding hands during the Pater Noster (what's with the revival attitude?); a greater emphasis on the Sacraments, including adding Adoration and maybe bringing in one of our Northeastern practices, names the Forty Hours Devotion.

I attended a Latin seminary many years ago and my friends who are now priests were trained with all of this stuff, so I see them making the adjustments normally, while many older priests who embraced the "spirit of V2" are getting a bit ruffled. However, I have to admit that living in PA, we're more used to a traditional mindset in the Mass than say, California, which, if rumors are to believed, is teeming with liturgical abuse.

There's an intersting video on the web called "What We've Lost" that's a bunch of crazy Latin Trads trying to convince us that the Roman Church is no longer either Roman nor Church. They make some good points, but you have to sift through a lot of bias.

Dear Friends,

The only way I have of relating this thread to Eastern Christianity is simply this:

May the Novus Ordo prosper long and everywhere in the Latin Church to ensure the steady flow of "liturgical refugees" to the Eastern Churches!



Alex