www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Canadian Latin Bishops promoting married clergy

Dear Friends,

The Canadian Catholic Bishops' Conference, I have learned, has been trying to get Rome to allow for married Native priests in the Latin Rite.

They have argued that celibacy is foreign to the Indian/Native cultures and it therefore hinders the inculturation of the faith etc.

Rome SEEMS to have responded by putting a hold on the canonization of Kateri Tekakwitha and forgetting about the Cause of Joseph Chiwatenhwa.

This seems to be the only instance of a Latin Church actually promoting a married priesthood.

Your thoughts?

Alex

Seeing as the human race needs sex to be fruitful and multiply (divine directive), I would think celibacy is by nature foreign to all of us, Indian (or real Indian ) or not.

But what do I know? I'm not too hot about Chalcedon either... :p

Dear Alex,

My thoughts? Well, in the Western Church, the "Liberal" position is to favor married clergy. In the Eastern Church the "Conservative" (or Traditional) position is to return to married clergy. The "Latinizing" (or "Liberal") position is to bar them.

Generally, I think the Latin Church would benefit from married priests, particularly as pastors in small town parishes and as assistants in larger parishes. They would greatly increase the community of men from whom vocations could be drawn.

Thank you, Alex, for your intrepid reporting of "Whirled Yoot Day", despite harrassment from the mob and the priests. :p


Have a Blessed Day !!!

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck

"... in the Western Church, the "Liberal" position is to favor married clergy. In the Eastern Church the "Conservative" (or Traditional) position is to return to married clergy. The "Latinizing" (or "Liberal") position is to bar them."

Names aside, what is the biblical (New Testament) position?

Dear Cantor Joe,

You'd be a great politician, Big Guy. You cut to the quick!

I'm happy our Church has you!

Alex

Dear Catholicos,

Yes, the issue of specific cultural taboos against celibacy is something I find fascinating.

There are languages where there is no word for "bachelor" or "celibate."

In Latin America, I was told, a man is not a man unless he "has a woman."

Their attitudes toward sexuality are completely different from those of most North Americans (I don't include us two in that dispassionate mix - we're very hot-blooded ).

At least the Canadian bishops have acknowledged the role of such cultural taboos and are doing something actively in response.

On Manitoulin Island, I believe, the Jesuits have a centre where they study Native traditions to incorporate them into Christian faith and ritual.

St Jean de Brebeuf was once confronted by a Huron who shouted to him that the world exists on the back of a turtle.

St Jean then told him that he had come to tell him about the God Who created that turtle!

Robert Lentz has written an icon of Bl. Kateri Tekakwitha and she is holding a turtle on which all creation rests.

Alex

Dear John Two Lungs,

God bless you!

The whole WYD experience has brought to the fore the role of pilgrimage in all our lives.

As for our Canadian Catholic Bishops, in addition to promoting a married priesthood for our Native Church, I understand they were also instrumental in removing our former Apostolic Administrator .

They're a class act all the way!

Alex

Funny considering that in the case of certain native tribes, the "Blackrobes" were trusted because they were actually celibate and in their eyes were not enriching their families at the Indians' expense. In those days, competition was strong between the Catholic priests and the Protestant ministers, and the matter of our tradition of married clergy aside, celibacy was actually a mark of distinction between the two faiths (Cath&Prot) themselves in the eyes of the natives (and needless to say, of the Roman Catholics as well)

If Moore's Black Robe has anything to say though, it may not have always been a good distinctive mark. ("Is he a demon?")

Two more points: the bishops' assetions are as outlandish as their sense of liturgy. I have a hard time believing there is any culture in this world where celibacy isn't foreign. Otherwise, said unfortunates would drive themselves to extinction. (Of course, there were actually such fruitcakes on a collective level: Manichaians I believe? Sex for procreation was bad enough for those people)

Point number two. Celibacy amongst the Latins is meant to be "foreign" shall we say. It is a mark that makes the religious or priest stand out from amongst the mainstream. That is the intended purpose, of indicating the person's consecration to God.

In IC XC
Samer

[ 07-30-2002: Message edited by: SamB ]

Dear Samer,

Whose side are you on, anyway, Big Guy?

Wasn't that a great movie, Black Robe I mean?

Yes, the original Black Robes were admired and valued because of their celibacy.

However, they were, after all, "foreign" missionaries. The idea of a Native Church with Native priests that adapted to Native culture wouldn't be in the cards for some time.

It was sort of like, "Yeah, we think you Latin, fuzzy-faced Jesuits are great as celibates - just don't try imposing it on us."

There are some cultures that simply would not admit to celibacy for ANY man as a life option - period.

I honestly don't think Canadian bishops are being difficult or silly.

They are regarded as "radicals" at the Vatican for this issue, the issue of General Absolution and others.

At one time, they were promoting the use of leavened bread in Communion with intinction!

Is there no low that these bishops won't stoop to theologically and liturgically?

Alex

Whilst on the topic of Canadian bishops, I would note that our own Ukrainian bishops did not exactly endear themselves to many of their faithful by the hatchet job they took to the closing Hierarchial Liturgy at St. Nicholas yesterday, a liturgy lovingly and painstakingly planned for many months so as to be in full accord with our traditions, which traditions were summarily and rudely swept away with a wave of the metropolitical hand....

Celibate clergy is part of Western tradition, so I am not in favor of removing something so entrenched in their tradition. If they want to change, let the transformation come from within their own ranks, not by outside forces. That's how Eastern Catholic churches got celibate priests in the first place: pressure from the West.

Soli Deo Gloria,
ChristTeen287

Also, strictly from a point of interest: hasn't Eastern Christianity always *valued* clerical celibacy, at least in monks and other cloistered, if not the entire priesthood?

Yes, Eastern Christianity has valued celibacy for monastics and clerics, but always by choice. If one wants to marry and then become a cleric, that's great. If one wants to be a celibate monastic and/or cleric, that's great too. But it's a choice one makes, not something that necessarily comes with the territory, as it does in the Latin Church.

It is my understanding that, in the past, the celibate diocesean priest was considered an abnormal situation. That is why when a diocesean priest, who is to be celibate, is ordained he was enrolled in a monastery as a monastic.

Maybe this isn't correct, but its what I have been told.

David

[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: DavidB ]

Dear ChristTeen,

Yes, monastic celibacy is valued in the East.

The point is that the Eastern Church understands the Priesthood differently than the Western Church.

The "Priest in the East" serves as a representative of the Bishop. The parish priest is someone worthy who is chosen from among the people to serve in this capacity. The fact that the priest can be married prior to ordination underscores this understanding of the priest.

Bishops and monastics are those who are devoted to prayer for the Church. They constantly pray and meditate on God's Word and are therefore open to mystical experiences, thaumaturges etc.

In the Alexandrian Church, every single Patriarch has been canonized and placed in the calendar with Pope Kyrillos VI coming soon. The Byzantine Church did that until some of its Patriarchs were condemned for heresy etc.

Bishops, who are always now chosen from among monastics, and monastics are set apart for a specific ministry.

The married or white priesthood is very much linked with the life of the laity, and I think this is a good thing!

In the East, it is very often the case that you CANNOT be a parish priest UNLESS you are married, as obtains in Russia.

Alex