www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Parish Life & Evangelization Full Vespers at Annunciation

Friends,

Returned from full Saturday evening vespers to venerate the cross at Annunciation of the Mother of God BC Church in Homer Glen. Beautiful. What the prospects of vespers becoming more regular among BC parishes?

Now if we can just regain the holy kiss.

Dan Lauffer

What a glorious Divine Liturgy we had this morning. I think I will start going to Vespers more often. I pray we will have them now more often.

My son and I gave each other a holy kiss this morning but alas I did not see any one else do the same thing.

One of my Theology students attended this morning. He is a worship director for a RC Church in the area. He was dumbfounded by the power and beauty of the liturgy. The RC's have nothing to compare, said he. "I'll be bringing my worship team with me next time to see what real worship is all about."

Dan Lauffer

Dear Dan,

Could you please explain to me the 'holy kiss'...

Also, where do you teach theology?

Every blessing,
In Christ,
Alice

St. Paul frequently admonished us to greet each other with a holy kiss. There are times when the Scripture writers relate some hugging but never is there any reference to a "holy handshake".

The Eastern Churches, especially the Orthodox, have retained this tradition. Men would greet men and women greet women this way. It isn't a juicy mouth to mouth variety. It is more akin to touching the sides of each others face. Deacons and priests do it all the time. There is even a place for it in the liturgy which is usually skimmed right over without any thought as to its significance.

I teach Theology at the University of St. Francis, Joliet, Illinois. I also teach Comparative Religions at a local Jr. College.

Dan Lauffer

Dear Dan,

Yes, people of Greek origin, even in this country, and even after a few generations, greet each other this way.

In the Divine Liturgy, (forgive me, my mind is going blank) there is a part where we greet each other (in my GO Church..in others they don't do anything) with a handshake, and a 'Christ is among us' (or in our very midst), and response of 'He is indeed', or 'He is and always shall be'.

In Christ,
Alice

Alice,

O my, the Greek have been Americanized!! I'm glad that they've kept the culture and the word greeting, but a "holy handshake"? :rolleyes:

Dan Lauffer

Dear Alice, this is still a custom amongst many Ukrainians also. The greeting is said to the other person (depending on the liturgical season) and then three kisses are given to the other person, alternating the cheeks (NO mouth kissing).

In our monastery, at the Eucharist the monks exchange the sign of peace - very similar to the "holy kiss" Dan described.

There is some technique involved in this seemingly simple gesture. Both monks bow to each other. Then the junior monk places his hands on his senior's elbows, while the senior grasps the juniors shoulders. Next both monks lean forward inclining their heads to the right side. When done properly, cheeks are touched. However some of my confreres are a bit touchy (pun intended ) about personal space - so there results only in something like a "Hollywood hug" with no actual contact.

When I was the lowest member of the community, it was easy because I would always be doing the elbow reach. Now that there are members below me in rank, I have to stop and think where to put my hands. It always makes be laugh inside because guests in the nave of our church must be amused looking at us monks trying to figure out "who leads."

This sign is only given between members of the monastic community, visitors are greeted with the standard American handshake. (Once we had a Jesuit novice stay with us in the cloister and he was always giving bear hugs instead. :rolleyes: )

Another ancient monastic custom, though not as old, was that of the pax board . This was sorta like a hand cross, but was a piece of wood that was passed through the choir that was kissed by each monk in turn.

PAX

Greetings all,
Thank you Dan, for bringing up the Great Vespers, I am glad that Annunciation parish had re-introduced the Great Vespers service last night. I hope and pray that Father decides to begin repeating the service, I found it wonderful! I usually do my devotions at home or at the Abbey but if the parish could do this on a regular basis I would prefer to go there and include it into my prayer life.

I have been struggling with using a Byzantine form of Liturgy of the Hours in my own home prayer practice, the Oblate director is OK with it but it is too confusing for me. I feel like I am reinventing the wheel and I go back to the Roman breviary, that's why I would prefer to go to the parish as often as possible. I just think that most cradle Byzantines are not interested in these devotions! If the interst is not sustained there will be no reason to continue.

In Christ,
Michael

Father called the return of Great Vespers an "historic event" in the Archeparchy. I know that one of the criticisms leveled at us by the Orthodox is that to accommodate our "masters" the RC's we abandoned vespers. My question: "Are there other BC Churches that have Saturday evening vespers?

Dan Lauffer

Glory to Jesus Christ!

Mr. Lauffer,

The correct answer to your question is, "Some are."

For example, the Great Vespers is served at our Seminary every Saturday and on the feasts of vigil rank.

Vespers is sung (using this word loosely) every Saturday at the Monasteries of our Metropolia: (Newberry Springs, Butler, Warren, Uniontown, Sugarloaf, North Royalton).

As far as parishes goes, St. George in Aliquippa has Vespers (standing alone) every Saturday. The Pro-Cathedral in Phoenix, AZ, is attempting to have Great Vespers on the eves of certain feasts.

The Cathedral in Parma, OH, and the Pro-Cathedral in Phoenix, AZ, and the parish in Las Vegas, NV, have a combination of Vespers and the Divine Liturgy on Saturday evenings and the eves of feasts. This usage, I am given to understand, is more common in the Van Nuys Eparchy than anywhere else in the Metropolia right now.

I would be very happy for others in the Metropolia to state when Vespers is being sung at the present time.

In regards to Sunday Matins:

The Seminary has Matins every Sunday in termtime.

St. George, Aliquippa, has Matins every Sunday.

St. Gabriel, Las Vegas has Matins every Sunday.

Annunciation, Homer Glen, IL, has Sunday Matins.

The Cathedral of Parma, OH, has a form of Matins
that is connected to the Sunday Divine Liturgy.

At the Cathedral in Munhall, we sing the Psalms of Praise (148,149,150) with the assigned stichera, and the Great Doxology, before the beginning of the Divine Liturgy. It's a start. <G>

It goes without saying that a restoration of at least Vespers is a serious need in the liturgical renewal of the Byzantine Catholic Church.

In Christ,
(Prof.) J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

Holy Ghost in Jessup, PA (Passaic Eparchy) has Vespers every Saturday at 2:00 PM.

I believe that St. Nicholas in Pocono Summit, PA (same eparchy) was having Great Vespers on the eves of certain feasts; I don't know if they still do.

Also, I believe several Passaic Eparchy parishes do the Saturday "Vesperal Liturgy" following the booklet prepared by Eastern Christian Publications.

Dave

St. John the Baptist parish in Wilkes-Barre Twp., PA has Great Vespers every Saturday at 5 p.m.

St. Luke's (Eparchy of Parma) has Saturday evening Vespers twice per month, which was regularly begun in August, was infrequent for several months prior to that.

We had nearly full Matins this morning but had to cut the Kathisma short and used the St. John Maximovitch schema of one stasis per Kathismata in order to time the Great Doxology right with the entrance with the Cross.

Friends,

This is good to hear. Please allow me to express an opinion from a converts perspective.

I like the idea that we are recapturing vital traditions. Most of the time when I read about the various Kontakians, etc. I only know vaguely what you are writing about. If it brings us closer to our roots I rejoice.

I spent most of my life wandering in the deserts of Protestantism in which Deism and minimalism were honored with a thin veneer of religious language. It was extremely unsatisfying. I thank God for most everything about our Church. Even if we are not perfectly renewed and restored...I still love it. As as we are restored I love it more.

Dan Lauffer