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Before one reacts in "horror" to the posted picture, I'd like to recommend a healthy dose of skepticism. I couldn't find a link to the picture at the "tradcath" site, but the latest image is very interesting:
http://www.tradcath.com/www/images/mahony.jpg
It appears with the caption: "Shocking photo! Cardinal Mahony's New Order of Nun/Liturgists in Full Habit"

This clown picture is making the rounds on a few boards. But like the nun/liturgists picture, there is no documentation that would assist an effort to verify its authenticity.

Is the clown picture from a Catholic church? Is it a from a mass? Is it staged? Has this picture been posted with a reckless disregard for its authenticity?

My favorite search engines picks up exaclty one hit to an RC liturgy dubbed a "clown mass", and one to an episcopalian "clown mass". But so much talk about the outrage of it all.

So in answer to the question:
I suspect that the answer is this: The likelihood is very small - both among EC and RC churches.

djs

[ 09-12-2002: Message edited by: djs ]

I apologize for having done such a poor search.

While a search of "clown mass", retrieved only one mass, I did find another citation under "clown liturgy".


But "clown ministry" - BINGO! Adding "catholic", however, cut the number of hits by a factor of ten. I didn't check them all but most were either ministries of non-catholic churches with references to catholic churches on the same webpage, or to non-liturgical ministries (visiting the sick or aged) in catholic parishes.

This seems to be the main function of the interfaith group with which the the CTK parish is involved. The clown ministry does, however, clearly participate occasionally in liturgies there. They apparently "hosted" a recent liturgy - whatever that means. There is a difference, IMO, between an ad hoc clown mass, versus corporate participation in a liturgy of a legitimate parish group. If they were present in full regalia, however, I would still consider it somthing of an abuse, even if they were just greeting or ushering. But then again, I always thought that KofC honor guards were a little gonzo too.

djs

PS (I could not tell if the originally posted picture is from CTK, by the way.)

[ 09-13-2002: Message edited by: djs ]

Brian
Member
Member # 1349
posted 09-12-2002 07:48 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you read the Documents of the Second Vatican Council, you will see that they NEVER mantion anything about such abuses to the Liturgy- these are excesses which the Bishop in that Diocese should handle and remove.

Brian,
I am quite aware the Vatican II documents never mention these Liturgical abuses. My point is that perhaps by the dramatic reforms of the Latin Mass Vatican II promulgated perhaps the "sense of the Divine" has been removed from the Liturgy. I personally feel that the 1964 Roman Missal would have been the ideal for the reformed Liturgy (it was the Tridentine Mass, but done in the vernacular). The 1969 NO, I feel, has "thrown the baby out with the bath-water." Once the spirituality of the Liturgy has been removed, people begin to experiement with "innovations" to recapture the spirituality-- unfortunately, most of these innovations, such as clown masses, are not for the better. I'm not knocking the Western Church, just sharing some thoughts. Some individuals are quite at home with the NO, and find it a spiritual experience. For myself, I feel I would be spiritually dead if I didn't have my Eastern Church traditions.
God bless!
Dan

Shlomo Mor Ephrem,
Here are some of the Syriac expressions you asked about.

Shlomo! (peace, as in "hello")
Shlomo koolhoon (Peace [be with] you all)
A reply to Shlomo => bShayno w bShlomo (in Peace and in Peace)
(Shayno = Peace)
Goodbye(when someone is leaving your house) => Z�l bShlomo(Go in peace)
(Z�l = Go)
A reply to Z�l bShlomo => Poosh bShlomo(Stay in Peace)
(Poosh = stay)
Goodbye(the person who's leaving your home, it doesn't mater if you said Z�l bShlomo or not) => Poosh bShlomo
Good Morning => Brikh Safro (Blessed Morning)
(Brikh = Blessed)(Safro = Morning)
Good Evening => Brikh Ramsho (Blessed Evening)
(Ramsho = Evening)
Lkhoun => Everyone
Habro => Friend
Aho => Brother
Your Brother => Ahoowk
Brothers => Ahoowto
Your Brothers => Ahoowtok
Sister => Hoto
Sisters => Ahwoto
Paternal Uncle => Dodo
Paternal Aunt => Doto
Maternal Uncle => Holo
Maternal Aunt => Holto

Aykano eeytaykh? (how are you?)
Aykano eeytaykhoon? (How are you all?)
Aykano bholayn deeylokh? (How are things [with] you?)
Eno tobo (I am good)
... shapiro (lovely)
... saggi shapir (very lovely)
... lo tobo (not good)
... tob men sapro hono (better than this morning)
... tawdi morYO (thank the LORD God
... tawdi sagi (thank you very much)
Brikh Sapro (Blessed Morning)
Brikh Yawmo (Blessed Day)
Brikh Ramsho (Blessed Evening)
Leelyo Tobo (Good Night)
Barekhmor(y) (Bless my lord)
Eno ithay Mshihoyo - I am a Christian
Mor => Sir, or my Lord
Mort => Madam
Moran => our Lord
Moryo => The Lord(Reserved for God)
Rish => Head
Abohoto => Fathers
Rish Abohoto => Patriarch
Qadiysho => Holy, Saint
Yeshu' => Jesus
Msheeho => Christ
Moran Yeshu' Msheeho => Our Lord Jesus-Christ
Moryo Yeshu' Msheeho => The Lord Jesus-Christ

Syriac Primer by Georges Antoun Kiraz with an audio CD The cost including shipping and handling in the USA is 38.55
You may order it from:

Middle East Publications
2150 Coral Way, Suite 5-D
Miami, Florida 33145
Tel. 305-285 1777
Fax. 305-285 7030

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

There is a lot of controversy lately among Catholics of the Latin Church because of a new $200 million dollar cathedral that was dedicated last week by Card. Mahony of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, Calif.

To view the new Cathedral of Our Lady of the Angels cathedral, please go to the url below.

http://www.olacathedral.org/


Joe Prokopchak
archsinner

Since this topic has wandered from Catholic_Man's original attack upon the Latin Catholic Church I am closing it with the request that Catholic_Man attempt not to use this Forum as a staging ground for attacks on the Latin Church.