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Dear Catholicos,

Even though I am "over the hill" for the priesthood, I think you are absolutely right.

I know there are books on vocations out there that are pure garbage and unrelated to life on this planet.

Such a forum, with the indulgence of the Administrator, could allow people to discuss things they read or hear about regarding vocations and so could get some guidance that could not be had elsewhere.

For example, I was once given a book on vocations where a theologian said that one couldn't even consider such a thing to be valid unless one had what seemed to be a palpitation in the heart etc.

What nonsense! But I took it seriously!

Although my high school was touted as a former "minor seminary" there was no guidance for such things, and where would one get it in university?

I see now that such a forum would provide invaluable services and could even result in guiding some real vocations along for the Eastern Church.

(As far East as you'd like, Big Guy!)

Alex

Dear Alex,

Where do you get such guidance in university? I've been wondering that myself...it gets harder if you're in a state university rather than one run by the Church.

I get in the email a vocations newsletter put out by the Legionaries of Christ...someone signed me up for it, and I haven't unsubscribed because I like reading some of the stuff it's got to say. But it's for Latins and their particular outlook, and beyond that, a lot of it doesn't seem rooted in "real life", if you know what I mean. So it makes for some good reading at times, but that's as far as it goes for me.

I agree with all the points you made in your post, I think this proposed forum could be a really good thing if we could get it going.

Discerning a vocation is serious business and best done with a spiritual director from one's own Church. If a forum is created it will not be possible for it to be anything more than a place for sharing experience and asking questions. A lot of damage can be done to a person's faith and vocation by well intended people who simply cannot understand another via the imperfect method of communication that is the internet. Anything on this Forum should be considered only in very general terms.

Dear Administrator,

Yes, absolutely!

But the discussions that would be generated in such a proposed forum might prove useful alongside a good relationship with a spiritual and vocations director.

Very often, the anonymity that cyberspace affords would allow someone greater flexibility and freedom to ask particular questions that he might not wish to ask of a priest in a face-to-face situation.

Many questions I've asked here on this Forum are questions I would normally not feel comfortable asking a priest or one of the theologians across the way.

Certainly, the temptation to leave it all to a cyberspace forum would need to be handled with prudence and erudition.

But is there anyone who shines more brightly with such virtues than yourself, Administrator? And I mean that sincerely, as I have posted no smiley here.

You know how to lay down the law. And that is what people like me and some of my colleagues here need sometimes .

I have no fear that such a thing would get out of hand with yourself in charge or with a duly appointed Moderator.

So many questions I wish I had asked years ago have returned to literally haunt me this afternoon since I've considered this proposal as is the case with Mor Ephrem as well and with others, to be sure.

Alex

[ 04-18-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

1) I think that a closed forum would let us discuss issues and trials that we have as seminarians between each other and the clergy, who are the adminsitrators. I will be entering the seminary this august and I have learned that there are very trying times during formation. Sometimes, it might be nice to communicate with other seminarians from a totally different environment.

2) As a seminarian I would feel less comfortable in a forum where anyone could give their two cents. I can chat with everyone else on the other forums.

I remember a thread on this forum about 6 months ago that talked about some "touchy" issues at the Byz. Catholic Seminary. Alot of people said alot of inappropriate things about the seminary and the way of life therein without alot of accurate knowledge, or experience. I think the issues on this forum might be of a different nature, specific to those in the seminary, and so we should keep it closed.

A closed forum will be an excellant opportunity for our future priests to have private conversations with one another, much like a retreat. This will can only benfit our churches, as the future bishops and priests form bonds of friendship and cooperation. I think that an open forum would prevent this from occuring, just as a clergy retreat open to the public would prevent the same.

Also an open forum might attract malicious people who want to influence a seminarian/priest.

3) This is a tough call. Ultimately, I think it would be good for those discerning to be involved. It would be like an "orientation week" for them to ask real seminarians questions at any time. But what will the procedure be to make sure they are really considering a religous vocation?

Christ is Risen!
ALity

[ 04-18-2002: Message edited by: Ality ]

[ 04-18-2002: Message edited by: Ality ]

Greetings All,

I guess I need to put my 2 cents in here. My idea at the beginin in suggesting this would a place for seminarians, and those studying for some ministry in the church to have a place that we could freely discuss matters concerning our formation and such things like that.

I think that an open fourum could lead others to hijack the thing and it could get all messed up. I closed fourum will allow us the freedom t osay things we not say in public.

As far as vocational discernment goes, sometimes just being with people who are going through the same thing is help. I agree with all that has been said about spiritual direction, and I am no spiritual director, but I can listen.

I know there may not be mnay of us out there, but, please God, there will be soon.

Peter

As an erstwhile member of a religious order, and as a diplomaed theologian, my perspective is:

A vocation is a highly personal thing; it is governed by grace from God and the guidance from a spiritual director who isn't afraid to kick butt.

In terms of a 'public' forum (restricted or not), one MUST be prepared to deal with the reality of exercising one's vocation within the community. Thus, a 'closed' forum here is just not a good and realistic option. An open forum, while subject to the ebbs and flows of the community, is a good thing -- as long as the seminarians and potential seminarians have a solid and ongoing relationship with a spiritual father/mother to serve as a touchstone.

Let's face it: we're all in this together. Divisons don't serve anybody.

Christ is Risen!!

One of the more interesting threads to be started lately, pastoral bread and butter. On this issue, I agree with Dr. John that these very practicalities of our Daily Walk In Christ are the real things that need discussing (and not the sombody said something somewhere, which validates something else that somebody wants, somehow)! History is full of theological opinions and (unfortunatley) short on practical solutions.

Congrats to Anastasios again on being accepted to St. Vlad's (and I would like to meet you on Ed Day in October). By then, all my Balamand research should be finished and I certainly will be a part of the OCMC exhibit. Please pray for me. I am one of six people selected for the Albanian Mission Team in June (it's very humbling). Anyone wishing to corrspond with me via email, please do so. Once again, please keep me in your prayers. Alex, please say Hi to Fr. Ihor for me and notify him of this (if you would be so kind).

The issue of vocations (and the married clergy situation) raises an issue in Eastern Chrisitan ethos. You find at St. Vlad's, Holy Cross St. Stephen's and St. Andrew's lay theologians who for whatever reason, never sought major orders. Some never married and didn't want to be celibates, others never just felt right about being ordained. You'll find Dr. Meyendorff lecturing about Liturgical Theology at St. Vlad's in a jacket and tie. Certainly different for those used to reading (or hearing) Father Meyendorff. Part of Eastern Christianity's beauty is the idea of Ecclesia (or the People of God). So whatever our individual calling may be, we must mever lose sight of the fact that "The steps of a man are from God".

InshUHLLUH,

Three Cents

Question: If such a private forum were created what would be the criteria for admission?

The Deacon's Door is restricted to Byzantine deacons and their wives and those who are official candidates and their wives. The status of each applicant requesting admission is confirmed prior to granting access. A similar private forum for official seminarians would be very easy to create. But one that included anyone who claimed to be discerning a vocation would much more difficult to manage since anyone could claim that they were discerning a vocation. Ultimately, it would be reduced to a private forum that is open to anyone requesting access.

Administrator,

I think the best way to handle this situation is to varify that they are in fact a seminarian. How do they do this in the Deacon's Door?

I also feel that it should be open to those who are teaching in seminaries as well.

Peter

Do what they do in business. Send in a reference to contact to verify that the vocation-inquirer or seminarian is really who they say they are. Let's say the name and email of their vocation director or pastor. If one is interested in serving the church and wants to be admitted to a private forum without first contacting their own church officials, then they should not be admitted. A forum should not substitute for the 'official process.' One should also be pursuing one's inquiry in tandem with one's church officers as well as securing a spiritual director. In my first college seminary days almost 20 years ago we did not have spiritual directors.

A private forum can be of help for those going through the official process or while actually studying in the seminary. With some vocations being far removed geographically from his/her brothers and sisters, sharing one's experience with those around the country can give one the inkling that they are not alone.

Cantor Joe Thur

[ 04-22-2002: Message edited by: J Thur ]

I agree with Joe.

I for one, am not all that comfortable sharing things regarding my vocational discernment on an open forum.

That being said, I also feel very alone in my discernment, it feels like I am the only one going through this.

David

I agree with both of you. I am, or will be, the only one studying for the Romanian Diocese, so I feel real alone here in Boston.

Peter

Dear Friends,

The feeling of being alone - yes, that was a problem for many of my priestly buddies.

And when I was contemplating the priesthood, I felt alone.

I wondered if this is an occupational hazard. If so, I didn't want it.

After more than 20 years of marriage - I'd become a hermit now though . . .

I think you guys should go ahead with this new Forum and the Administrator is to be thanked and his hands kissed (as we say in Ukrainian) for being so well disposed toward this idea.

Alex
Failed Priestly Candidate

A Good family friend of mine told me this Friday night, that what I am doing, entering the seminary, is so different. 99% of the rest of the world would'nt even consider such a vocation.
Being 26 years old, not having much money, being a smart man capable of getting a good job, and facing leaving the woman of my dreams for the next three years, I too feel alone at times. But I cannot see myself in any other place in life.
And I know and experience, on a daily basis, the peace of Christ and the certainty that His providence will carry me and my gal through this.

I wish all of us Byzantines could go to one Eastern Catholic Seminary together. We could then all be like family and possibly this bond would help our churches to unite into one single Byzantine Church of America.

If you create this forum, please make it a closed forum. I have my whole life ahead of me to exercise my vocation publically. There is nothing wrong with having privacy.

Xpuctoc Anesti!
ALity