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Perhaps the underlying message here is the need to share information for all current and future Eastern Catholic seminarians and monks. And what about women who wish to join the Sisters of St. Basil or one of the other Byzantine religious orders -- or even consider a women's monastery comparable to Holy Resurrention (men's)Monastery in Southern California. I just read the two pages on this thread and between the lines I'm reading a BIG need for information.

David,

If a private forum is created for official seminarians their status will be verified with their bishop as we currently do with The Deacon's Door.

Verifying a status of “discerning a vocation” with a spiritual director is too much work since one may also need to verify that the spiritual director is legitimate. I welcome and encourage the suggestions of any clergy as to how such a forum would be created and who would be the moderator.

--

Anastasios,

Wishful thinking won't get you anywhere. If your bishop does not consider you a seminarian then you are not a seminarian. I do not know of a single Catholic or Orthodox seminary that offers open enrollment that grants anyone with a sponsoring bishop the status of “seminarian”.

Please don't understand. I think it is wonderful that you are discerning a vocation. I just think it is wrong to consider yourself to be a seminarian when you have not yet asked for the blessing of your bishop. Byzantine Christians never undertake something this important without a blessing.

Regarding your suggestion that the private forum be opened up to anyone studying at a seminary or involved in lay ministry, would this not simply equate to a public forum? How do you think such a forum should be managed?

--

Monastic Beginner,

If there is interest in a private forum for monastics (men or women) I would be happy to create a special forum. I must again state, however, that discernment of such a vocation and actually living it are two different things.

Admin

"Wishful thinking won't get you anywhere. If your bishop does not consider you a seminarian then you are not a seminarian. I do not know of a single Catholic or Orthodox seminary that offers open enrollment that grants anyone with a sponsoring bishop the status of “seminarian”."

The Pontifical College Josephinum, my alma mater, had a number of 'independent' seminarians and were obligated to be under the same rules found in the seminarian handbook as 'sponsored' seminarians. A sponsoring bishop was not necessary until the student entered the theologate. Until then the independent seminarian discerned what diocese to hook up with. The ONLY difference was that the independent did not get the 'sponsoring bishop' discount on his tuition. This was the practice at the Pontifical seminary since it was not a 'local' diocesan seminary but an international one.

Joe

[ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: J Thur ]

Christ is Risen!

As a seminary teacher, and sometime novice master who also worked for a time in the "vocation" ministry, I have been reading this thread with interest!

It is curious that at the same time that our Church seems bereft of vocations, there are young men and women around who seem to be communicating that they are exploring a possible vocation, and that they are not finding adequate support, encouragement, or the opportunity to dialogue with others in a similar situation.

We used to hold "vocation" retreats, and it was wonderful to see how the retreatants would respond to each other, encourage each other, and by their discucssions help one another to narrow their search and discern more precisely how God was calling them.

I would hope that such retreats can happen here in America. I wonder how we could create such a thing online? While it seems a good idea, I am not sure how it would work. I am not sure that the dynamic that I found so valuable in the past, can really work on-line.

But since some have expressed a need, and a hope, it is my sincere wish that something can be arranged.

Elias

"It is curious that at the same time that our Church seems bereft of vocations, there are young men and women around who seem to be communicating that they are exploring a possible vocation, and that they are not finding adequate support, encouragement, or the opportunity to dialogue with others in a similar situation."


Hieromonk Elias,

BINGO! BINGO! BINGO! Christ is Risen! Alleluiah (3x's)! Wisdom has spoken! Praise Jesus the Lord! Amen!

You have hit the nail (Slam!) on the head (Wham!) on the problems facing vocations (Bam!). SUPPORT - ENCOURAGEMENT - DIALOGUE. These precious gifts for the seminarian are akin to the gold, frankincense and myrrh offered Our Lord at his nativity. Do potential vocations even know the name of their eparchial vocation director? Does the Church assume that the potential vocation knows the application process well enough to go it alone? If one doesn't hear from the vocation director for six months, does that vocation know who to turn to? How many vocations did the seminary thing without ever having met their bishop? Support, encouragement and dialogue is where vocation icons and molebens leave off.

Joe

[ 04-29-2002: Message edited by: J Thur ]

Joe,
I wish to point out something to you that you have done, but I believe that it is inadvertant.

You said;

These precious gifts for the seminarian
Do potential vocations even know the name of their eparchial vocation director?
Does the Church assume that the potential vocation knows the application process well enough to go it alone?
If one doesn't hear from the vocation director for six months, does that vocation know who to turn to?
How many vocations did the seminary thing without ever having met their bishop?

There are more than just vocations to be priests and deacons.

Let us not forget the monastic vocation. When we speak of vocations it seems as though we focus on the eparchy, priests and deacons, and forget about the monastics. This is wrong.

I still see eyes roll, :rolleyes: , at my parish when someone brings up vocations and I mention monastics.


Your brother in Christ,
David

Indeed He is Risen!

But Joe, can this be done on the internet? That is the question. If so, how?

Perhaps it is not the appropriate place, because maybe this needs to be done by real people, face to face?

Elias

Dear David,

Christ is Risen!

Keep mentioning the monastic vocation, and don't get tired of explaining it to people.

That is what I enjoyed about our "vocation" retreats at Aylesford. There were men and women, those interested in the diocesan life, and monastic life (in all its incarnations). These retreats were not about "recruitment" but about "discernment", and in this way, they were less threatening than visiting the local vocation director, who would be interested in recruiting for his bishop, or his religious order or seminary. Those who came on the weekends met one another (and in some cases made lasting friendships! They challenged one another, exchanged hopes and ideas, and in this way helped one another to refine, and define what they were feeling in their sense of "call".

Elias

I apologize. I can only speak for seminarians since I was one. This goes for all vocations. How about catechists, cantors, and lay theologians?

I have to agree with Elias though. The face-to-face approach is always better. There is no substitute for real people. Without getting to know someone personally, one can muster all kinds of wrong impressions. Maybe its this real face-to-face experience that is lacking?

Joe

Dear Joe,

Of course every way of life is a vocation, married or single, monastic or lay, clerical or not! We "billed" the retreats as for those discerning a vocation to the priesthood (I suppose diaconate should now also be included), or the religious (in the sense of monastic or community) life.
There were a few talks on discernment, but I think if they were helpful, they were minimally so. I think the really helpful experience was the Liturgy, and the personal contact.

Such personal contact is superficial, and someone "removed" in this e-mail medium.

Is anyone in our Church offering such weekends? Should they? Should we?

Elias

Hieromonk,

I think what both you and J Thur had to say in your post is what is actually heavily lacking in todays Catholic community (at least in the West, excluding Latin America) - and that both Western and Eastern Rites. I like the concept and actual event of the retreat you mentioned. Though I share your hesitation about bringing that in an online community. The good thing though! Is that like Admin. said these Catholic and Orthodox forum sites are not only a tool of evangelization but also a tool or vehical for vocation discernment.

Three big principles predominate todays youth to me. They are: Competence, Pleasure, and Pride.

Competence - it's stressed that morals are relative truth is relative. Competence is not so called morals distinguishes the good man. Thus heroin in your arm for pleasure is not bad as long as you can remain productive and successful.

Pleasure - well this speaks for it's self.

Pride - not only should one seek that healthy pride in himself, but this is taken further to suggest one should covet as much as he can for himself i.e. wife, objects, wealth, glory, and so forth. Violence is also seen as good pride.

So I think that letting the young go... a drift shall we say, hurts vocations in the end because what moves one to vocation is supressed further and further as one becomes more and more indoctrinated in modern societal principals.

Okay Friends, it is me, the guy who started all of this.

All of the discussions are valid as far as I can tell. I have a few reflections that I would like to share.

When I first proposed this forum, I thought it would be nice to have it open to anyone who was studying for ministry in the church, and teachers also.

After some thought, and reading the posts here, I narrowed it down to those who are "official" seminarians of an Eparchy. The Administrator will be able to verify this with his sponsoring Bishop as he does with the deacon's door.

It was never the intention of the group to replace face to face meetings with anyone. I can not imagine going through this decision process alone. Family, Friends, co workers are all important in the decision. If they do not understand, make them understand. If you have the passion for serving God in Ministry, then prove it to people. I have been on this vocation journey for the last 15 years, and I have met people from all walks of life. Some support me, and some don't.

An internet fourum is no replacement for spiritual direction. If you do not live near a spiritual director, MOVE. I have never had an Eastern Spiritual Director, mine have always been of the Latin Variety, but they understand the Eastern Tradition.

It is your vocation and your life, you need to do the work cuz no one is going to do it for you. There are going to be three of us studying at the Latin seminary in Boston, 2 Melkites and me 1 Romanian. We are going to have to form our own community to survive.

I think vocation retreats are a great idea. I would be willing to help with such a cause, but the Bishops, and thier priests need to buy into this, as well as the monastics. I was a monastic for four wonderful years, although is was latin, and I love the way of life and support it fully. Part of my decernment process was to find out if that life was for me, and it was not.

Anyway, all this to say that the fourum should be for those who are varifiable seminarians or teachers in seminaries, and that is all. The decernemnt process is very different for other ministries.

Okay, long post and I am sorry. If you are a seminarian please send me your name and Eparchy and Bishop's name to me so I can send it along to the Admin.

Thanks

Peter
brpeter@aol.com

I think a general vocation retreat would be great.

But.... then couldn't a forum/email list be used to help those retreatant in touch/contact with each other as a sort of support group?

Just an idea.

David

David,

I think maybe a group like a Yahoo group would be great for something like that. Maybe that is the place for the seminarians group. I will have to give that some thought.

Peter

Are Yahoo! groups fora like this forum or are they mailing lists? And perhaps such a mailing list is more appropriate for those of us discerning a vocation, since such a forum here seems to be out of the question at this point? Or are there already such mailing lists?