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Excellent!

Mor Ephrem,
The short answer is Yes!

Yahoo groups are like a forum and an email list.

You can get all postings as email or a digest there is also a site you can go to, to read past posts or you can shut off the email option and only read the posts at the site.

There is also places for links and files.

I would be willing to start a group if there is interest out there.

David

Dear David,

I would most certainly be interested in such a project. I don't know what I could contribute other than personal experiences and the like, I don't think I'd be able to start decent topics of conversation, but I'd be there. Hopefully more will express an interest, especially more interesting folks. Perhaps there are folks on Catholic Pages who'd want to join? Or should this specifically be tailored to the Eastern Catholic/Orthodox realm? Let me know your ideas...

Hieromonk Elias:

Yes, we do need support, encouragement, and dialogue with one another.

Re: vocation retreat.
Perhaps, could you put in 2-3 sentences how a vocations retreat day and/or weekend could be structured -- something specific that I (or others) could take to our parish priest and suggest so that we could organize it -- maybe for men discerning the priesthood and/or monastic life as well as women wanting to consecrate themselves to God in one of our established religious orders or begin re-establishing traditional monastic life as the Holy Father said in "Orientale Lumen." Maybe a vocations retreat could be for all Eastern Catholic Churches in a state or a region to get information and to meet one another AND TO FIND A SPIRITUAL DIRECTOR.
Thank you for all your help. God bless all of you.

Dear monastic beginner,

Thanks for your note. The weekends I knew in England were a model of what I was speaking about.

They were hosted by a Carmelite community, using one of our retreat houses. A small group (usually between 8 and 15 persons) would gather, based on an advertisement or other publicity. People would write to say that they would like to attend, and so we usually gathered a nice group.

The retreat group would join the community hours, and the Divine Liturgy, and that often formed the basic structure of the day. In addition to the common meals and services, there were a few talks. As I remember, the talks were short (15-20 minutes) followed by a discussion. Topics for the talks were, "diocesan priesthood", "religious (community) life", "ways of prayer and discernment" "ministry in the Church", "celibacy" etc. etc.

We shared meals together, and there was lots of time for people to meet between the talks, to walk, share the story, speak with one another about how they were making decisions etc. etc. Friendships were formed in this way, and it was a great support to know that other people were asking the same questions, and wrestling with the same issues.

A few men entered various dioceses, and religious communities. Some decided that nothing of the sort was for them. Everyone seemed to find the weekends helpful as they made their decisions.

My feeling is that an important part of the weekend was the prayer together. It is when people have open and willing hearts, during the time of prayer, that God will gently make known his will for them. Beginning spiritual direction, and encouraging "seekers" to give themselves to more fully to God in prayer was very important. Vocational decisions were secondary, and often took care of themselves without pain, when there was a good experience and a sense of friendship and support after the weekend...

I would encourage you to organize such a weekend retreat gathering.

Elias

Bless Father Hieromonk Elias!

How could we organise such a retreat? Where would we have it? How would we get people to it, and minimise the costs/keep it free of charge? Who would we have lead this endevour? Should a Priest and/or a Monk be present? Should it be held in a monastery, or would a parish church suffice?

I have ideas, but do not know if they are practical.

Greetings All,

I have established a yahoo group for Byzantine Vocations. I want to remind all of you that, as I said earlier today, that this should in no way be a substitute for direct contact with a spiritual director or priest. It will be for those who want to be involved to share their experiences and have a little fellowship.

Send an e-mail to:

byzantinevocations-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

And you will be in.

Peter

Dear In Christ,

By Byzantine Catholic standards, I am not to be considered a Seminarian becuase I have no sponsoring bishop.

However, a St. Vladimir's faculty member sent this reply to me:

"Dear Dustin,

Yes, every student here, no matter what their affiliation, is considered a seminarian."

So it boils down to whose definition is it? Since I will be going there, and studying there, and since they will be calling me a Seminarian, I think I'll call myself one--unless I want to suffer as a dual-personality type! Imagine: "So Mr. Hudson, are you a Seminarian?" "Well are you Orthodox, or are you Byzantine Catholic?" "Why, Mr. Hudson?" "Becuase if you are Orthodox, then I will say I am a Seminarian, per St. Vlad's--but if you are Byzantine Catholic, I'll have to say that due to the legalities of not being sponsored by a bishop, I am only a 'lay student'." "What if I told you I were Protestant, Mr. Hudson?" "Uh.... don't confuse me with the facts!!"

In Christ,

anastasios the "non-seminarian seminarian" :-)

PS I am not trying to be sarcastic if anyone read it that way; I am merely feeling quite strange being in this limbo-like stage!

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: anastasios ]

Dear Anastasios the Academician,

First of all, Limbo is no longer taught in Latin seminaries .

But, seriously, I think your own limbo-like experience reflects your own spiritual state vis-a-vis Catholicism and Orthodoxy at this juncture in your life.

Your orientation is mostly pro-Orthodox, yet you are not yet ready to "go over" as you might feel you are either losing or betraying something with respect to Rome.

I personally feel that you might be most at home within the OCA and that once you begin living a community life with other members of the OCA at St Vlad's, you will feel rooted and therefore able to make a definite commitment to Orthodoxy.

As I see it, anyhow . . .

Alex

Please don't think me rude, but just because I practice medicine does not make me a doctor. I have made the commitment, and I have gone through the interviews and the psycological evaluations, I have sent my transcripts and taken the GRE's, and I have my Bishop's blessing to be in seminary. I am a seminarian. If you have not gone through the process, no matter what the school calls you, you are not a seminarian. Wear all the cassocks you want, you are a student in a seminary, not a seminarian, that distinction goes to those who have the blessing. That is the way it is.

Peter

Dear Brother Peter,

You are absolutely right!

But if your comments are directed to Anastasius the Academician, I really think it is a matter of time before he will commit himself to God's service within the OCA, as I've prophesied.

My prophecies are seldom wrong . . . I'm not boasting, just telling it like it is .

Alex

Dear Peter,

1) Good for you that you went through the psychological exams, etc. etc. You are lauding it over me, it seems. You want to show how you're "different." What matters is how we are serving God. Do you think I care about a title? I don't--what I care about is people who are on the same level as me telling me how to refer to myself.

2) Your analogy that "he who practices medicine is not necessarily a doctor" is invalid. If the competant authority gives you the title "Doctor" you may use said term. If a seminary is telling me that they consider me a "seminarian" should I thus say, "you're wrong. I am not!" I am going to go by the title that the institution that I am attending grants me. Joe Thur pointed out that at Pontifical Seminarians they have independent seminarians; so are they really seminarians according to *your* definition that one must have the bishop's blessing?

3) Don't you know how much I wish I could be a regular seminarian with the bishop's blessing? I want to go to a Byzantine Catholic Seminary with my *wife* (will be married June 15). Well for obvious reasons that isn't happening right now.

4) Why do you call yourself "brother"? Are you a monk? a friar? (honest question).

5) Can I really call you Eastern if you are going to a Latin Seminary? How are you going to learn about Eastern Christianity there? (My point in this ad hominem comment is to show you that I can't judge your Easternness, becuase I have no position to do so; likewise you can not tell me what to refer to myself.)

I am peeved because you had no reason to state the way you did that "that is the way it is." According to whom? You? Why did you even butt into this--I addressed it to the Administrator's question.

anastasios the "student at the seminary, who despite being told by St. Vladimir's that he will be considered a seminarian, will not be becuase Brother Peter says so"

PS I really took the offense at "wear all the cassocks you want." You were clearly attacking me with that statement as I never said I wanted to run around in one. St. Vladimir's *told* me to purchase one.

[ 05-01-2002: Message edited by: anastasios ]

Brother Dustin, I am only now coming to read this thread (my job is a real pain in terms of time) but I am very happy to hear that you are going to pursue your philosophical/theological studies at St. Vlad's.

Our African-American brethren have a hymn that says: "Keep your eyes on the prize".

This is the ultimate touchstone when one wishes to pursue a life of service to the Church. It should never be about the stupid externals of cassock, beard, language, ritual, canon laws, married/unmarried, ethnicity, calendar, or 'jurisdiction'. It is about serving God's people because the Holy Spirit said: "Do this!"

As Our Lord told us: "Feed my sheep." If one has truly received the kick-in-the-butt from the Holy Spirit to serve the Lord's baptized faithful, then that is what you must do. And despite all the administrative crap, one must answer to the Holy Spirit and not to anyone else. (Except, of course, one's wife: "For the two shall become one".)

Whether your studies will ultimately guide you to the Byzantine Catholic Church, or an Orthodox jurisdiction, is -- in my mind, liberal and looney as it is -- not an issue. It is a question of service. I hope that your time at St. Vlads will be both spiritually fulfilling, educationally rewarding and a foundation for whatever service the Holy Spirit has in mind for you.

We've crossed swords several times in the past (both here and in Greg Bronson's "Byzantines.net"), but please be assured that as you pursue your potential vocation, I wish you nothing but the best.

The only thing I would suggest is that you always make decisions based upon what is best for the people of God, and their salvation. All the jurisdictional bull**** and the other stuff is just trash that gets in the way of true service. And I pray that you and your helpmate (is she still in law school? Oy! A lawyer!!!) will settle in to a life of service to God's people that will be incredibly rewarding to both of you. It ain't the piety -- it's the reality!!!

Go, get 'em!!!

Christ is Risen!!!

Dear Dr. John,

Thank you for your kind words! I am quite happy to have been accepted into Saint Vladimir's Seminary, and I intend to use my studies to make Christ known--not to get involved in the jurisdictional BS! Why do you think I am not pursuing a degree in canon law? ;-)

It's true--I don't care about cassocks, beards, etc. Hey, two of the priests at St. Vlad's are beardless! ha! I just want to go where I can learn the faith better and be trained in a way to serve the Lord. I can't do that at the Byzantine Catholic Seminary becuase I have "other attatchments"! he he. I love my fiancee! Actually, she will be starting law school, Dr. J., so we will be in for a rough ride--but I think it will be a good wake up call to me. I've worked hard *for myself* and now I can experience working hard for someone else--which will prepare me to work hard for all God's people.

Whether I end up Orthodox or stay Byzantine Catholic will ultimately not be a decision based on who is "right"--being engrossed in history I just see too many points of view that can't be discredited. I have my personal feelings about who is doing the "ancient thing" better, but what will decide my ultimate place in life is the community with whom I end up worshipping, and where I can serve God the best. Hey--I might end up in the Assyrian Church of the East! As long as it is an apostolic Church, of course! ha ha

I must say that people such as you and Kurt, as much as I disagree with you all politically and on some Church issues, has made me learn how to appreciate community and service better (although I am not your stereotypical traditionalist who complains and never does anything constructive*--but I don't want to promote myself so I'll leave it at that).

IN Christ,

Dustin Anastasios

PS--* = I said stereotypical, so fellow traditionalists, please do not jump on me!

A giant THANK YOU to Hieromonk Elias for your wonderfully long post on a vocations retreat weekend. I've already begun trying to organize such a day for our parish with some modifications for parish life.


And a quick note to the Administrator: Yes, would be interested in a closed forum for monastics already living a monastic life. If you decide to do this (like the Deacon's Forum), I'd very much like to participate.