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It seems that the Caritas Internationale and the Vatican certainly have their heads buried in the ground like Ostrich. They don't know what the heck they're doing or talking about.

The Palestines ARE the radical Islam folks. I am in full support of Israel (Jews) reclaiming the Gaza strip, which was taken away from them by the Palestines.

It always seems like people are working WITH the enemies instead of AGAINST to support one's own people these days. WOW!

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

The same Hezbollah that sent Mullahs all through the Christian villages when they took over to assure them they could leave there homes to attend sunday Liturgy and ring their church bells. Interesting!

I would prefer the comments from the Vatican who I know have have many centuries of expereince in dealing with the middle east to commentary from a country where school students were found from research to not know where Canada is. Countries dont have diplomatic relations with the Holy See because it is cute or nice. They do so because they know there is expereince there and knowledge that they can tap into.

What's your basis in concluding that "[t]hey (the Vatican and Caritas) don't know what the heck they're doing or talking about?"

Apparently, you do not appreciate the role and the "works" of the Vatican (and Caritas) in times of war and conflict. They have been at it longer than many countries in the world.

Countries and governments many a time turn to the Holy See and her agencies when negotiations for peace requires neutrality.

For instance:

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19 July, 2006

LEBANON – ISRAEL – VATICAN

Siniora asks Card.Sodano to push for ceasefire

Foreigners are fleeing from Beirut and tourist resorts, where displaced Lebanese people are taking refuge. The nuncio in Israel expressed the great concern of Benedict XVI. In Washington, Patriarch Sfeir urged Condoleezza Rice to impose a ceasefire.

Beirut (AsiaNews) –A ceasefire is the urgent priority of the Lebanese government, which has turned to the Holy See for help. The press office of the Prime Minister, Fouad Siniora, reported a “long communication by telephone” between the premier and the Vatican Secretary of State, Cardinal Angelo Sodano. Siniora, according to his press office, called for the immediate intervention of the Holy See to push the parties to announce a ceasefire. The Cardinal expressed the pope's special interest in Lebanon and his concern about the deterioration of the situation which could, as he said recently, “have international repercussions”. The prime minister thanked the pope for his noble sentiments with regard to Lebanon.

Meanwhile there seems to be no let up in the situation on the ground between bombings, rocket launches and tens of thousands of foreigners fleeing Lebanon, leaving behind empty hotels in holiday resorts, which are being occupied by Lebanese people seeking refuge from zones in the line of fire, like southern Beirut and the south of the country. In places like Beit Mery and Broummana that were hosting thousands of tourists, new cars leaving modern hotels are meeting trucks and even carts arriving with thousands of displaced people.

In the United States, Patriarch Sfeir met the Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, in Washington. The patriarch is in the US for a pastoral visit to Maronites there. Sources close to the patriarch spoke of the emotion and concern expressed by Card. Sfeir to Rice. He called for the imposition of a ceasefire, with the disarmament of all the militias who do not form part of the Lebanese army. This seems to have become one of the aims of the Israeli onslaught. Yesterday, in just one attack, when the barracks of Jamhour (near the presidential palace) was shelled, the army paid a very high price with the death of 11 soldiers and four officials. The Defence Minister, Elias El Murr, launched a strong appeal to “peace builders”, reiterated his condemnation of Israel for striking the national army, which is blameless, and promised to defend each and every soldier, “because the army is Lebanese and the army of all Lebanon”.

Meanwhile, the Jerusalem Post reported that the Nuncio, Mgr Antonio Franco, said he has asked Israel and Hezbollah to immediately put an end to the violence and to start negotiating. "The pope is very concerned about the violent activity on both sides," he said. "The use of force can be understood under the present situation, but reason has to prevail." He was speaking during a meeting with 30 Catholic school teachers from the US in his parish on the Mount of Olives.

The Vatican diplomat also said he had sought to obtain the release of Corporal Gilad Shalit, kidnapped in Gaza, from Hamas. “We received no response from the Hamas," he added.

(additional reporting by Yousef Hourani)

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Amado

The articles posted were very informative. Another thought though occured to me. I know that the Muslims keep having children in order to increase their power and influence, and that their Islamist leaders have a total disregard for their lives and well being. They also use terrorist means in order to try to frighten the Jews into leaving Israel. Could the bombing of predominantly southern Lebanon and southern Beirut be a means by Israel to force the Shia civilian population to leave for Syria?

Yesterday while watching CNN, a reporter was taken into an area that was bombed continuously. The Hezbollah member that showed the area to the reporter kept crying about the damages inflicted on the homes and where is the international community. At the end though, he said that they will teach Israel a lesson, and will never stop the war for their honor is at stake. So much for 'their' own concern for 'their' own people.

I would like to know, where is their 'honor' if they are expecting the international community to come to their rescue? Shouldn't they be accepting an honorable peace for the sake of their people? It seems what they consider 'honor', is really Islamic triumphism on their part. :rolleyes:

As for many of the Americans in Lebanon, the thought occurred to me also that many of them might be members of Hezbollah. I also can't help but wonder about the 20,000 Canadians in Lebanon. How many of those holding dual citizenships are residents of Lebanon, and how many are simply tourists trying to get out.

Zenovia

Some of those 20,000 Canadians you mentioned are actually Armenian Orthodox, who immigrated to Canada and are visiting family remaining in Lebanon. You can tell the Armenian Orthodox by their last names which have beem mentioned on the news.
I am not suggesting all 20,000 are Armenians but please bear in mind that some of them are.
There is a significant Armenian population of recent immigrants from the Middle East in Montreal and Toronto.

Dear Spdundas you said:

I say:

Actually, I don't believe the Gaza strip ever belonged to Israel. The Christian and Muslim Palestinians inhabited all of Israel, with a few Jews thrown in. That was before the Jews from Europe began immigrating to Palestine. I believe the Gaza strip and the West Bank was taken and occupied by Israel during the Six day war. I think I heard that Gaza is the most populated area of the world. I might be wrong.

As for the Christians in that part of the world, they have gradually left because of the wars.

Zenovia

No, you're not wrong. Gaza is presently the most densely populated area on the planet. I can't help but wonder if this is due to Islam�s tendency to overwhelm its enemies, be it by sword or by birthrate.


~Isaac

Gaza is full of refugees going back to 1948 and the egyptian administration fo teh area until 1967, thats why is has such a population. As for the Nuncio waiting for a reply from Hamas. The Israelis have blown their mail box to pieces in Gaza so they might be a bit hard to contact just now.

The Holy Father proclaims Sunday, July 23rd, as a:

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DAY OF PRAYER AND PENANCE FOR PEACE IN MIDDLE EAST

VATICAN CITY, JUL 20, 2006 (VIS) - Faced with worsening situation in the Middle East, the Holy See Press Office has been directed to communicate the following:

"The Holy Father is following with great concern the destinies of all the peoples involved and has proclaimed this Sunday, July 23, as a special day of prayer and penance, inviting the pastors and faithful of all the particular Churches, and all believers of the world, to implore from God the precious gift of peace.

"In particular, the Supreme Pontiff hopes that prayers will be raised to the Lord for an immediate cease-fire between the sides, for humanitarian corridors to be opened in order to bring help to the suffering peoples, and for reasonable and responsible negotiations to begin to put an end to objective situations of injustice that exist in that region; as already indicated by Pope Benedict XVI at the Angelus last Sunday, July 16.

"In reality, the Lebanese have the right to see the integrity and sovereignty of their country respected, the Israelis the right to live in peace in their State, and the Palestinians have the right to have their own free and sovereign homeland.

"At this sorrowful moment, His Holiness also makes an appeal to charitable organizations to help all the people struck by this pitiless conflict."

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The Holy See has earned the trust of countries and governments because of her steadfast support and concern for the welfare of all parties involved in a conflict.

In this proclamation, Pope Benedict XVI reiterates the unchanging stance of previous Popes as regards human conflict and I re-emphasize:

In fact, that's one of the Vatican's recognized roles as a member-state of the United Nations, although the only religious body in that gathering of secular States. The U.N. member-countries have acceded to the Holy See the respected standing as the "moral compass" of today's world.

Let's offer our prayers and do our penance this Sunday.

Amado

Originally posted by Pavel:

Being a social worker the question of the Gaza Strip's population intrigued me so I did a little digging and found some relevant factoids (all figures current as of 2006):

Current population is 1.4 million � expected to reach 2 million by 2010. Population increases by 3% to 5% each year.

Highest birthrate in the entire middle-east: Gaza Strip has 40 live births per 1000 population annually (compared to the West Bank's 32/1000, Egypt�s 23/1000, Jordan�s 21/1000 and Israel�s 18/1000).

80% of Gaza�s population is under age 50.
50% of Gaza�s population is under age 15.

On average there are 5.5 to 6.0 children per family.


~Isaac

At the time that Israel attacked, I wondered why she always retaliated so harshly? Well not only Israel but the US is amazed at the amount of rockets in southern Labonon. What did Hezbollah intend to do with this continuous increase in arms other than attack Israel? Also why are all the Shia Muslims, known supporters of Hezbollah doing in the Southern part of Lebanon?

To all that cannot see the woods because of the tree's or the tree's because of the woods, I can only say that the Muslim population increase surrounding Israel seems very suspicious to me. As suspicious as the constant increase of the Muslim population in Europe through birth rate and smuggled illegals. But then again, I am of a suspicious nature.

Of course this has nothing to do with the sufferings of the people. But for those that cry genocide, let's remember that when the Nazi's bombed (let's say) Belgrade, 20,000 to 30,000 civilians were killed. Now I'm sure that Israel has a greater capacity than the German airforce and yet less than 500 were killed. I personally do not consider that genocide.

Of course, destroying one's inferstructure is another thing. But then again, the Muslims are known to use civilian homes, schools and hospitals, in order to house their arms. That way they can cry 'foul' when they are hit. A great propaganda victory for them.

As for the guilt, who is the guiltier? The one that intentionally goes into civilian homes and endangers their lives by using it to attack others, or the one that shoots at it.

I know that in the West Bank, Hamas would go into Christian homes, that way they could harm two groups at once. They could shoot at the Israelis and drive the Christians from their homes at the same time.

But then again, the Muslims are not the only one's that use the divide and conquer strategy to their benefit. The Israelis have used it many times, as well as the English, etc. :rolleyes:

I think Newt Gingrich is right. This seems to be the beginning of WW III. I see no way out. The Israeli's are making demands that the Muslims will never consent to, and the successes of Hezbollah have enboldened others, such as the Palestinians in Gaza that are now holding pictures up of Bin Laden. We are walking a thin line, and I can only hope that Saudi Arabia will remain neutral.

Which makes me wonder! Which side will Chavez choose? Actually this is no time for jests. Shame on me!

Zenovia

Zenovia,

You are right to say those things. I guess Israel retaliate so aggressively because she is surrounded by the Islamic extremist countries....so she should be "afraid" if all of these countries conspire to take over, which is what they will try to do (I believe).

Wichita has a large Lebanese community and many of them support Israel's intentions of getting rid of these terrorist groups in Lebanon.

I don't think the world will EVER see peace as long as Islam continues to exist along with their solid idealogy founded in the scary Koran.

The world has NOT seen true peace since Muhammad made up some kind of "vision" of an "angel."

We should start judging the tree by its fruits rather than falling into blind ecumencism with Islam.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

Another one of the e-mails I got from Brigette Gabriel.

But the e-mail contains photos, so I decided to have it on a link instead of copying and pasting them.

Spooky.

Hezbollah U.S.A [cedarmailer.com]

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

off-topic drift-
The missus and I were in Dearborn, Michigan right after July 4. We traveled from my mother's in Ohio to visit the Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village.

There was a significant front page article in the July 5 edition of the Detroit Free Press about the US Government's investigation of Hezbollah supporters in the Dearborn area.

Scary.

I pray for the Maronite Catholics of Lebanon and of the US. They have suffered so much at the hands of Islam.