www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Yet another new sui juris Rite?

Greetings to everyone,

Being a staunch promoter of ecumenism within the Roman Catholic communion I am excited to share some news with my fellow friends here on the Forum.

As many of you on this Forum know, I am exceedingly interested in the prospect of a new Anglican Rite (a Church sui juris-like your own Byzantine Catholic church) in union with Rome.

In the process of finding out as much as I can about this movement I have quite accidentally stumbled upon other non-Anglican groups with similar interests in a corporate union with Rome.

Below is a link to one of these groups. They call themselves the "Augustana Evangelical Catholic Communion" and are composed of a series of "evangelical Catholics, Lutherans, Orthodox, Anglicans and independent Catholics", according to their website.

This group seems to be less organized and far-less visible than the Anglican group but I think they are admirable nonetheless.

I urge us all to pray for them on their quest to join the See of Peter.

Augustana Evangelical Catholic Communion [home.sprintmail.com]

You know, this may sound silly, but I have always thought that those of us with "Church connections" that is, those of us (laity) who know ruling hierarchs/bishops personally could help to foster dialogue with these small groups, that seem genuine in their efforts at visible unity.

In other words, we could help by putting Church A in contact with Church B and at least opening the possibility of dialogue. I see this as going in line with the ever-popular teaching of John 17:21.

Anyway, thoughts and commentary are always appreciated.

ProCatholico

Dear ProCatholico,

Yes, the Lutherans especially have produced some solid ecumenical scholars and even movements, like "Die Sammlung" or "The Gathering" that includes Lutherans and Catholics discussing ecumenical concerns.

We often see just the Anglicans as the most "Catholic leaning" of the Western Christians not in communion with Rome.

In fact, the Swedish/Finnish Lutheran traditions are very close to Catholicism, liturgically speaking as well.

The major plus in the northern European Lutherans in their relationship to Rome today is that they have a Germanic Pope who is very sensitive to their concerns, understands them and who is also very personally conscious of the Western patrimony of the first millennium (one Lutheran friend recently remarked to me about Pope Benedict, "He looks just like a fifth century Bishop of Rome!")

So it's all positive.

Alex

The site links to churches that are members of the communion, at least one of them has women clergy. Also the traditinal Lutheran profession of "grace alone, faith alone, scripture alone" is affirmed.
They may want reunion with the Catholic Church, but that does not appear realistic barring some big changes on their part.
-Daniel

Alex,

Your extense knowledge on matters pertaining to the Church never cease to amaze me!

And the papal anecdote left me with a big grin :p

Sometimes, I fear that many of my Eastern brothers and sisters (especially on this Forum) do not share much enthusiasm for ecumenism as we do in the West. Perhaps this is rightfully so, because there are little historical ties between the ancient Eastern churches and the newer Western churches (i.e. protestants, anglicans, etc).

I only bring up these cases of groups seeking to join Rome in the hopes that it sparks support or at the very least discussion from Byzantine Catholics, who themselves are a group in union with Rome.

But I digress...

Let us continue to pray for one another

ProCatholico

I think ecumenism is a fine thing, but let's remember something basic here. There's a big difference between groups who disagree on church governance, and those groups who hold to doctrines incompatible with Catholic doctrine. Unity is great, but do we want unity of faith and doctrine, or do we want a pious association of free thinkers who hold to no specific creed?

Hi, all,

I just read in Zenit, The Catholic News service, that the hierarchy of the Finnish Lutheran Church has petitioned Rome for union with the Catholic Church.

I also believe that the most conservative (read traditional) of the Anglicans have petitioned Rome for union with the Catholic Church but I was not aware of their requesting an Anglican Rite. There is already an "Anglican Use Rite" in the Catholic Church. They use The Book of Common Prayer as approved by the Congregation of the Liturgy.

I also understand from rumors that possibly the Assyrian Church of the East is also seeking union with Rome but that is only hearsay. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Glory to Jesus Christ!

George The Latin

Glory to Jesus Christ!

AGAIN...

There is no such thing as a "Rite sui juris."

Within the Western Church, there are "rites--" the two most distinctive are the Ambrosian, used in the Metropolitan Province of Milan, and the Mozarabic, which is used in certan parts of the Diocese of Toledo in Spain.

There are also "uses," which are variants on the Roman Rite. Most of these are now defunct, though some of the monastic Uses which had been abandoned immediately after Vatican II are being rehabilitated, and some have actually kept going all the time. Examples of these would be the distinctive "uses" of the Order of Carmel, the Order of Premontre, the Order of Preachers. The city of Lyon had its own "use." Historic examples would be the "Sarum use" of the diocese of Salisbury, or the "Upsalla use" of the same-named diocese in Sweden.

If the Anglican parishes were to be anything, they would be a "use" within the Roman Rite, since it is from the Roman Rite (albeit the Sarum use) that they descend.

Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA

George the Latin,

Do you have a link to the story on the Finnish Lutheran Church?

I looked at Zenit, but could not find the story.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Gordo the Byzantine

I found this...

http://www.catholic.net/global_catholic_news/template_news.phtml?channel_id=2&news_id=71586

I believe there is, or was, a parish in Texas that came from the Anglican Church to Catholicism. When I have seen references to it, it has been listed as "The Rite of Anglican Use."

From the founding parishes website:

"Our Lady of the Atonement is the Founding Parish for the Anglican Use Liturgy within the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church, and is one of several personal parishes in the United States which was established under the terms of the Pastoral Provision granted by Pope John Paul II in 1980. As an Anglican Use parish, we retain many elements of Anglican liturgy and traditions in worship, while remaining fully Catholic. All Catholics are welcome to take a full and active part in parish life and worship."

http://www.atonementonline.com/anglican_use.html


There are currently 5 parishes and two missions using the Anlican Use

Our Lady of the Atonement Parish
San Antonio, TX

Our Lady of Walsingham Parish
Houston, TX

St. Mary the Virgin Parish
Arlington, TX

St. Athanasius Congregation
Boston, MA

Church of the Good Shepherd Parish
Columbia, SC

St. Margaret of Scotland Parish
Austin, TX

St. Anselm of Canterbury Catholic Mission
Corpus Christi, TX

ByzanTN writes:

I honestly do not believe anyone here would suggest that we, as Catholics, seek intercommunion with groups that comprimise our teachings and traditions. However, what the modern ecumenical movement encourages, at the very least, is open and frank dialogue between various religious communities. Therefore we would not have a problem talking to non-Christians (i.e. Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, etc) on matters of joint concern, such as poverty, hunger, etc. This is commendable. And in fact our Catholic communion encourages these types of discussions. Similarly, the Orthodox churches have from time to time met with members of non-Christian groups as well. And we do this in order to foster amiable relations in the world, but not in order to create full communion-obviously.

The groups which I have mentioned here countless times, (The Traditional Anglicans, and now the Traditonal Lutherans) have traditions that differ from the Roman Church (same can be said of the Eastern Catholic churches)but they would also gladly embrace papal supervision, in order to fulfill visible unity with us (again, same as the Eastern Catholic churches). They would have to alter some of their Protestant beliefs surely, but if they currently have any I bet they are certainly minimal enough that any changes would not be drastic to either group involved. In other words, we would not be embracing Churches that ordain women, and advocate ultra liberal ideas and such, but rather those who share our joint stances on social and religious issues while always maintaining our own particular "ethos".

So I remind us to keep these groups in prayer, as they are seemingly 'orthodox' in their beliefs and equally sincere in their quest for unity.

ProCatholico

All,

As per the term, "Rite" we are looking at two distinct definitions.

One according to 'Dictionary.com' states:

So in other words, the Roman Rite of the Roman Catholics or the Byzantine Rite of the Melkites or Byzantines etc.

The Anglican-Use currently in use in the Roman Catholic Church IS NOT one of these Rites. But rather as it's name suggests, it is a Use or Usage (variation) of the Roman Rite.

And one last note, the above list of AU-Roman Catholic churches is correct, with one exception. St. Margaret of Scotland in Austin ceased to exist several years back according to the Diocese, fortunately though, the rest of these Anglican Use churches are growing from what I hear.

ProCatholico

Very interesting. But I agrre with Daniel, to say that the 39 articles and the Confessio Augustana is an acceptable statement of Christian Faith is simply false and unrealistic.
Stephanos I

Dear Stephanos,

Fortunatly, I do not think anyone here was saying that either the "39 Articles" or the "Confessio Augustana" were acceptable statements of the Christian faith.

However, what I suggested was that if these small groups were indeed to join Rome, then they would have to drop these statements entirely. They would likely embrace a modified statement of faith that refelcted their heritage.

ProCatholico