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Here is an interesting web site I've come across and thought of you might like it too. Don

http://www.angelfire.com/tx/filial/catholicorthodoxjoin.html

Bless me a sinner, Father Don!

Yes, this is a great site - but I did notice they include the "Filioque" in the Athanasian Creed .

But no one's perfect!

God bless,

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

Pope's Pilgrimage to Greece: Documents

www.angelfire.com/tx/filial/greece.html [angelfire.com]

Thank you, thank you for this!!!!!

On another board, I've been having a very frustrating discussion with some extremely exclusivist Orthodox people. They deny that the Holy Mysteries exist anywhere outside Orthodoxy; they either deny the validity of Catholic sacraments or else say they "don't know" whether our sacraments are valid. They also accentuate the doctrinal differences between our communions...it's almost as if they go out of their way to exaggerate those differences; at least that's how it comes across to me. (I don't know why I keep dialoguing with these people. Masochism, I guess. )

I told these folks that I thought their rigid position did not represent mainstream Orthodoxy. They insist that it does. I found one quotation from an Orthodox metropolitan to the effect that Catholics and Orthodox are very close theologically and very little separates us. I asked, "Do you agree with this Orthodox metropolitan?" -- but received no answer.

I would like to believe that the anti-ecumenical extremists are the fringe, not the mainstream. I would like to believe that most Orthodox realize how crucial Christian unity is -- just as we do -- and want to commit seriously to achieving it.

But since my Internet experience has somewhat jaundiced me, I need all the resources I can get from "mainstream" Orthodox sources showing that our Orthodox brethren really do care about reunion -- despite what these sectarian anti-ecumencial types claim.

(And of course, I recognize that there are anti-ecumenical sectarians on both sides; but I've mainly encountered them lately on the Orthodox side.)

Anyway, thanks for these resources!! I will pay special atetntion to what the Orthodox contributors say.

Thanks again.

Are you actually a priest, or is Alex pulling our legs? If you are a priest, then I too ask for your blessing, Father!

Blessings,

ZT

Zoe, I was a priest in the Old Roman Catholic Church for about 9 years, one year ago yesterday I resigned from the active ministry before being recieved into the Ukrainian Catholic Church as a layman. So yes, I am a priest, but no longer active in the priestly ministry. As such, I no longer have the privilege of giving any blessings other than those any lay person may bestow and also have no right to be addressed as Father. Alex calls me Father because he is trying his best to get me to return to the active priestly ministry and because he respects the Orders that I have recieved. God bless and keep his Ukie heart I hope this clears up your confusion. Don

Dear Don,

How well you know me . . .

Alex

Hmmm once ordained a priest ALWAYS a priest. Just as in marriage.

May I question as to the reasons you left the Roman Church? If they are personal or none of my business I perfectly understand, its just that it is interesting to see that you are moving towards a more traditional faith and practice.

Dear Jeff:

Don of Kansas says, as he has always done, that he was of the Old Roman Catholic Church.

I think there is an institutional difference between his previous affiliation and THE Roman Catholic Church?

AmdG

Yes, the Old Roman Catholic Church is like the Roman Catholic Church, except that it is "Old."

Don, can you enlighten us here?

Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ZoeTheodora:

"They deny that the Holy Mysteries exist anywhere outside Orthodoxy; they either deny the validity of Catholic sacraments or else say they "don't know" whether our sacraments are valid."

"I told these folks that I thought their rigid position did not represent mainstream Orthodoxy. They insist that it does."

This position certainly exist within "mainstream" Orthodoxy, not only in extreme schismatic groups.

However, the position that the Catholics and the Oriental Christians does indeed have "valid" sacraments is also found within the "mainstream".

As is the agnostic position on the sacraments of the heterodox. This last position is, in my experience, the most common, purhaps one could say the most "mainstream"...

"I found one quotation from an Orthodox metropolitan to the effect that Catholics and Orthodox are very close theologically and very little separates us. I asked, "Do you agree with this Orthodox metropolitan?" -- but received no answer."

Well, Orthodox Christians don't need to agree with what a bishop says, not even with what the Patriarch of Constantinople says!

"I would like to believe that most Orthodox realize how crucial Christian unity is -- just as we do -- and want to commit seriously to achieving it."

Most Orthodox do consider Christian unity to be important, but only if it is unity in truth!
The "I'm ok, and you're ok"-attitude doesn't work for the Orthodox. Unity among Christians can only be achieved when the non-Orthodox return to an Orthodox confession of faith. This doesn't mean there har to be uniformity in rites and administration, but the faith must be pure and Orthodox...

Praying for Unity in Truth,
Christian

Dear Christian,

So what is "purity" of Orthodoxy by you?

Are we not using terminology that a certain group long ago like to use, er, oh yes, the Pharisees?

Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:

"Are we not using terminology that a certain group long ago like to use, er, oh yes, the Pharisees?"

So what are you saying, Alex, that if a word has been used by the Pharisees, we can't use it?

Or is anything that isn't relativistic, and uses words like "pure" and "absolute truth", Phariseical?

Christian

Dear Christian,

You are a good sport and you give as good as you get!

You have my respect, Sir!

Alex

I'm sure that your Church would be glad to receive Don as a priest, there are several Anglican priests who are now Catholic Monsigniors, and former members of Old Catholic "Independent" Churches who are now Orthodox priests.

Zoe:

There are many Orthodox sites that do not represent the views of Canonical Orthodoxy. It's sad that the wonderful and helpful site of the Orthodox Information Center, sometimes presents articles that are quite anti-catholic, anti-oriental orthodox in an fanatic way. I wouldn't pay much atention to these artciles, most of them are written by converts from evangelical protestantism who hold their own ideas of what the Church must be.

However, there are many traditional Catholic sites who hold the same ideas about their rejection of Ecumenism, intercommunion, prayer gatherings. Most of them, as well as the Orthodox ones, are supported by groups who are not part of the established Church.
It's funny to see how the language used by the ROCOR and the Society of St Pius are so similar, I'm sure that if they try they should make good common statements (and maybe they would someday reach full communion )

Dear Remie,

Yes, if ROCOR would reach full communion with SSPX, I guess one side would have to agree not to call the other, "reprensible heretic" and the other not to use "invincibly ignorant schismatic."

There is hope, in other words . . .

Alex