www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West What to do about East and West?

My head hurts! Why does my head hurt, because of all the time I spend researching Orthodox and Roman Catholicism searching for a home. I became a member of this message board because (correct me if I'm wrong) you're Eastern in union with Rome.

Let me just start out about me I guess...I'll keep it short. Me: Grew up in devout Lutheran family, went to Russia and introduced to Orthodoxy, didn't understand it much, came home, went to Orthodox Church here after a while, fell in love with it, married devout Catholic with devout family, worried about family unity so researched Catholicism more...now I spend my time getting headaches reading works by men much smarter than myself argue about Orthodoxy and RC, trying as former protestant to wrap my little mind around the concepts and see what I believe in, or better yet, trying to figure out what is the Truth.

I don't know what I'm asking from the message board, I just need to vent my frustrations. I do have some questions I suppose. Does anyone on the board go to church in MN? If so, I'd like to attend a church service. With people who obviously have questioned and researched EOC and RC I guess I could use any advice as well, like books and the such.

One more question...what if my wife and I wanted to baptize our baby there? My wife, like I mentioned is RC, can RC become members of Byzantine Catholic no problem? Excuse my ignorance please, but with my love of the East and her devout Catholicism, we agreed to look into raising out child Byz Catholic. My wife has attended Byzantine Church in the past and enjoys it, and seems to have no problems joining. Me on the other hand, I need to rack my brain over and over again to figure out which church is the church for me.

I hope this made sense!

Pray for me.

Dear Homeless Pilgrim,

Thanks be to God! You have come to the right place! I am a newbie on this forum, and I learn so much here all the time, that my head spins. But it is wonderful, gracefilled learning! Yes, Byzantine Catholicism is Orthodoxy in communion with Rome, although not everyone on this forum wears that title. Many Roman Catholics and Orthodox have a voice here as well.

All your questions can be addressed one by one, provided you give it some time and allow the Holy Spirit to enlighten you. For your information, the ecumenical documents between the east and west provide that there is nothing that divides the Orthodox from the Catholic that is a detriment to our salvation. So from there it is all a learning and praying experience for real unity to happen, and please God, one day it will!

The wonderful news is that in the Byzantine Catholic church your wife can retain her allegiance to Rome, which many of us are strongly for. But you can retain the worship tradition you are accustomed to, that of the earliest Church. Your baby can be baptized, chrismated, and communed in the Eastern Catholic churches, and have the wonderful privilege of receiving communion as an infant! Praise and adore our Lord for this wonderful gift, for you know what they say about, "out of the mouths of babes."

Your frustration seems to focus on the duress of trying to intellectually sort out all of your options, and probably with a lot of emotional stress pulling you this way and that. Allow the Lord to say to you, "PEACE, be still." Your entire family can research the Byzantine churches together.

Perhaps the beauty and rich spiritual traditions of the Byzantine tradition will draw your family nearer to our Lord.

We here are happy to hear from you, and more than happy to assist you as we may. There is a wealth of knowledge here. Though I am not an expert, I can point you toward many on this forum. Everyday I grow richer in the taste and understanding of the Church our Lord established. Praise be to Him who loves you! Come on aboard! Paschal Peace, Tammy

What a wonderful and true reply Tammy.

>I am not an expert
Apparently you are and expert - on how to mine for treasures.

-ray

Dear Homeless Pilgrim,

You should rejoice that in this day and age you have found a young lady who is a devout Catholic!
You are very lucky to have found such a gem! Not many young women take their Christian faith seriously today.

As an Orthodox, I would assure you that if you chose Roman or Byzantine Catholicism, you have found *fullness* and *truth* of apostolic, sacramental, and liturgical faith. With the commitment of your wife being what it is, you really shouldn't be looking at Orthodoxy, for that would take her away from the church which she loves.Marriage is difficult enough without adding a decision that may harbor hidden resentments that may resurface years later.

You said that she likes the Byzantine rite of the Catholic church, so I don't think that you need to look any further! I don't know why you are feeling so dizzy!
You found it all, and you haven't even realized it!

Stop worrying and be a pilgrim *with* a home in the Byzantine Catholic church!

In Christ,
Alice

Dear Ray K,

I agree with you--Tammy's post was profoundly beautiful.

I am so glad that she is here...and hope to hear much more from her!

In Christ,
Alice

Christ is Risen!
Indeed, He is Risen!

No, the Byzantine Catholicism is not "Orthodoxy in union with Rome". It is Catholicism of Eastern rite. This is being discussed elsewhere, if you ar interested.

I can understand your frustrations with the situation and would only refer you to prayer. When the opportunity arises, I would suggest you visit monasteries of the GOA which are under the spiritual direction of Elder Ephraim and consult with the fathers there to build your prayer life and find the wisest way for yourself and your family.
E D

Ah, HOCNA, such the surprise ...

CHRIST IS RISEN!
TRULY HE IS RISEN!

Dear IM,

HOCNA is the, ahem, *Holy* ahem Orthodox Church of North America, under the direction of, ahem *Bishop* Ephraim. HOCNA is schismatic, and a very evil place. They produce wonderful translations and icon prints, though. Such are not necessarily dependent on spirituality, for if they were, the HOCNA monastery could probably produce scribbles alone.


The monasteries referered to were, as you quoted, GOA (Greek Orthodox Church of America) under Geronda Ephraim...no bishop, but a holy Orthodox elder, who is spiritual father to four Athonite monasteries as well as the sixteen monasteries in the United States. These monasteries are good, canonical, and well worth a pilgrimage, should one receive a blessing to do so.

Just a correction.

Gaudior, helpfully.

Dear Balaban,

You insist on constantly offending others here with the justification that you speak for the "Truth."

But just as you don't like what you call "Russophobia" and Metropolitan Laurus et al., we EC's here do NOT consider ourselves as Catholics (ie. Roman Catholics) of the "Eastern Rites."

We constitute Particular Eastern Catholic Churches with our own theological, liturgical, spiritual and canonical traditions.

And we have fought the good fight in asserting these before all who deny us the RIGHT to have them.

Most Orthodox, even here, would deny that you yourself are an Orthodox Christian in canonical good standing.

Who are you, ultimately, to judge anyone?

Alex

Dear Homeless Pilgrim,

I'm going to imitate the style of Balaban in responding to you from an EC perspective.

"Stay away from 'Orthodoxy' as it is in schism from the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that is founded on St Peter and his successors, the Popes of Rome. The crown of Orthodoxy is communion with the Pope of Rome, the only guarantor of true faith and worship. The 'Orthodox' are so divided that they themselves don't know what is canonical any more."

There, I got that off my chest . . .

Alex

Dear Alice:

I am pleasantly surprised at your Orthodox perspective. It makes me mysty-eyed this early in the morning!

If only other Orthodox Christians are willing to reach across inter-faith boundaries, as constantly displayed by the Greek Orthodox, charitable co-existence may yet lead to unity!

And to think that His Beatitude, EP Bartholomew of Constantinople has just formally, and officially, accepted the sincere apologies of his Holiness, Pope John Paul II, proffered in 2001 in Athens, for the "sins of the sons and daughters of the Catholic Church," including the sacking of Constantinople on April 13, 1204 by the Catholic crusaders.

The pall casts by April 15th has just been lifted for me!

Amado

And my dear Alex, the Repentant:

You have made my day exquisitely pleasant as well!

For I have been one of those waiting, expectantly, for these, in your own word, to come out and unburden yourself of such a pent up emotion.

You are my man, as always!

Amado

Any time, Big Guy!

There is something to be said for the odd triumphalist expression, now and again, wouldn't you say?

Alex

Welcome, Homeless Pilgrim!

I would refer you to:

https://www.byzcath.org/lists/usa50/mn.htm

I don't know how far you live from Minneapolis (or even if you haven't already visited it!), but I think St. John's would be worth a visit. I'd recommend visiting a few times, get used to the surroundings, and then talk to the Pastor about your situation. Don't rush anything, time will remove your headaches.

Your wife can certainly go from EC to RC. An EC Priest will be better able to acquaint you with the process, but I believe it involves attending an EC Parish for about a year or so [this has been covered before, and doing a search for it would be of value].

Haven't been there in many years, but the last time I saw it Saints Constantine and Helen Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Minneapolis (or Saint Paul - I'm not sure) was very beautful. At least go have a look, and light a candle for me. the address appears to be 316-6th Avenue, Minneapolis; telephone (612) 678-1732. Priest's name appears to be Father Michael.
Christ is Risen!

Incognitus