www.byzcath.org
Posted By: Scandinavian 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 09:26 AM
I promised myself I wouldn't post here any more, but I just couldn't help myself, so here goes:

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On 3 August 2005, three of the four Ukrainian Bishops of the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church-Canonical in Ukraine (UAOC-C), Archbishop Wasyliy (Luts'k-Volyn Eparchy), Bishop Isaakiy (Cherkassy-Odessa Eparchy) and Bishop Vsevolod (Ternopil' Eparchy), along with their clergy and people, have left the UAOC-C. Notice of their departures was served on Patriarch Moisei both individually and personally. According to the Centre for Orthodox Unity it is believed that more priests from other regions have also expressed their intent to leave the jurisdiction of Patriarch Moisei. The entire press release of the Centre for Orthodox Unity follows.

Among the collective reasons for their departures, the Ukrainian hierarchs are unanimous in their condemnation of:

1. The alleged public heretical and unorthodox teachings of Patriarch Moisei which have expressed his belief in reincarnation. Substantiated proof, they allege, was given in written extracts of Patriarch Moisei's lectures to people in Kyiv as well as in a video in which they say Patriarch Moisei clearly supports belief in reincarnation. Consequently, many of the faithful in Ukraine are looking at the UAOC-C as a sect rather than as a Church.

2. The allegation that Patriarch Moisei has become a divisive figure among the churches in Ukraine, and, because of this behavior, a court in Ukraine recently refused registration to the UAOC-C on the grounds that the UAOC-C, through the person of Patriarch Moisei, has caused extreme tension and conflict among the churches of Ukraine and will not be registered by the government of Ukraine.

3. The allegation that Patriarch Moisei has not followed the constitutions of the UAOC-C which were approved and implemented by the General Sobor [Assembly] of the UAOC-C in Kyiv on 18 June 2005. Among examples of this they stated that Patriarch Moisei suspended a priest without the right of this priest to due process in an ecclesiastical court as mandated in the constitution of the UAOC-C within 30 days of any such "suspension," as well as his not following the constitution of the church in having full synodal approval in the election and incardination of new bishops and in the fact that he ordained bishops in their twenties contrary to the 35 year of age requirement mandated by the constitution of the UAOC-C.

4. The allegation (which the Ukrainian bishops are asking to be investigated by the government of Ukraine) that Patriarch Moisei has solicited and received contributions from priests and faithful for the building of a church building and the collected monies for which (they allege) he has put into personal, not church, bank accounts abroad.

5. The allegation that Patriarch Moisei considers himself the sole authority in the UAOC-C, without question and that he has acted without synodal approval in most matters. They claim that despite the fact that the constitution of the UAOC-C states that the chief governing body of the UAOC-C is the synod of bishops, in reality, the UAOC-C is governed despotically by one person rather than by the synod of bishops. As an example, the bishops state that Patriarch Moisei proclaimed himself patriarch without formal synodal approval and through intimidation. The bishops state that the synod was neither asked nor permitted to put forth any additional candidate(s) for patriarch to run against the then Metropolitan Moisei. Many bishops, they say, were against the election of a patriarch, in the first place, due to the added political division which this would bring in Ukraine, but these bishops had no opportunity to voice their concerns and/or reservations.

6. The ordination of men to the diaconate and priesthood without any formal theological training, a factor which could lead to horrific consequences once these priests and deacons begin preaching and teaching the people of God.

7. The accumulation of many "paper bishops" who have no real knowledge of Orthodoxy and who can celebrate only the novus ordo Roman Catholic Liturgy and one Latin American Bishop who had been convicted of child molestation and who was subsequently defrocked when he ministered as a Roman Catholic priest. This bishop's vicar is also publicly known to be his lover, and
when this matter was brought to the attention of Patriarch Moisei, nothing was done to correct it and/or to protect the UAOC-C.

8. The allegation that Patriarch Moisei has made slanderous, libelous and unsubstantiated lies against any bishop who disagrees with Patriarch Moisei or departs from the UAOC-C. The bishops ask that if these horrific allegations which Patriarch Moisei raises against bishops and/or priests who leave to enter other jurisdictions had been true, why, then, did Patriarch Moisei accept them under his mantle to begin with?

The Ukrainian bishops have called for (1) all to return to the true teachings of Orthodoxy, (2) to work with and not against the other churches of Ukraine as sister churches to achieve peace and brotherhood, (3) to follow the canons of the Orthodox Church and (4) to respect the dignity of each person and his/her inherent rights to due process.

It is rumored that the Ukrainian hierarchs have appealed to Bishop Ioan, Bishop of the Midwest in the United States (UAOC-C) to come under his mantle and to grant their appeal to form a new, American-based jurisdiction under his protection. However, the Press Office of Bishop Ioan has not been able to be reached for comment at the time of this press release.


Source: Centre for Orthodox Unity



www.risu.org.ua/eng/news/article;6784/ [risu.org.ua]
Posted By: Scandinavian Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 09:55 AM
Patriarch Moisey answers:

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My heart bleeds for their souls that doomed themselves to eternal ruin. And they can't be any more called pastors of orthodox souls as by their deeds they crucify and betray Jesus and His Saint Church.


www.soborna.org/news_eng/news_162_05.htm [soborna.org]
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 12:57 PM
Dear Scandinavian,

I made a similar promise to myself four years ago . . . wink

Anyone can set up a "patriarchate" these days on the flimsiest of grounds . . .

Moscow did the same a few centuries ago! smile

Alex
Posted By: anastasios Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 02:18 PM
If they wanted to be under Americans why did they leave Met Steven and Met Michael???

Anastasios
Posted By: Scandinavian Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:

I made a similar promise to myself four years ago . . . wink
As I recall you've made a promise like that several times.. wink

But I think your precense here is valued more than mine, for good reasons.

Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:


Anyone can set up a "patriarchate" these days on the flimsiest of grounds . . .

Moscow did the same a few centuries ago! smile
But in Moscow there weren't already 3-4 claimants to the patriarchal throne.

And the Moscow Patriarch actually had both chuches, monasteries, clergy and parishoners under his jurisdiction prior to his enthronment as Patriarch.

I have my doubts that the same could be said about the most venerable Moisey.
Posted By: Scandinavian Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by anastasios:
If they wanted to be under Americans why did they leave Met Steven and Met Michael???

Anastasios
I don't think they were ever under Metropolitans Stephan and Michael. Only Moisey was. His jurisdiction is basically his very own creation.
Posted By: Irish Melkite Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by Scandinavian:
I don't think they were ever under Metropolitans Stephan and Michael. Only Moisey was. His jurisdiction is basically his very own creation.
Scandinavian,

You're absolutely correct. My recollection from our past discussions is that then-Bishop Moisey was originally sent to Ukraine by Metropolitans Stephen and Michael, when they were still operating as the UAOC-S. I don't remember precisely whether he was intended to set up a constituent UAOC-S jurisdiction there or was intended to seek rapproachment with the UAOC - I think the former. However, when they decided to enter communion with the UAOC, he bolted and decided to go his own merry way.

Many years,

Neil, who thinks we should all be grateful that these 3 decided to place themselves under Metropolitans Stephen and Michael, rather than creating yet another "UO" Church
Posted By: Amadeus Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 03:16 PM
Dear Scandinavian:

Promises are made to broken! biggrin

In fact, many times by "others" as you aptly observed! wink

Amado
Posted By: Mexican Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 03:45 PM
The accumulation of many "paper bishops" who have no real knowledge of Orthodoxy and who can celebrate only the novus ordo Roman Catholic Liturgy and one Latin American Bishop who had been convicted of child molestation and who was subsequently defrocked when he ministered as a Roman Catholic priest...

I had myself posted some news about these Latin-American groups recently. I will not say anything about the presumed molesation case because I don't know who was the accused one and it would be very uncharitable. Suffice it to say that the UOC-KP Latin-American Diocese itself (yes even the KP!), refused to receive many of these bishops, into their Diocese!

Now, sooner or later this was going to happen. These groups are clearly not following the rules, they receive anyone who says to be a priest without the propper investigation. Some of these priests and bishops got their orders from "Liberal Catholic" or vagant Old-Catholic sects whose orders aren't even recognized by the Vatican as valid.

Many of their "priests" enter for convenience. They often pose as Roman Catholic (indeed, celebrating modernist masses) and get money for funeral services, baptisms or unction of the sick which is used for personal use and without permission.

The UAOC-C in appereance, seems to be a blend between Ukrainian Orthodox and vagantism. Just look at their site, and how they've reached "intercommunion" agreements with vagant sects, and incardinated people of doubtful origin, doubtful orders and doubtful orthodoxy.

I believe it's the propper time for Canonical Orthodox Churches to issue a statement regarding these vagant and non-canonical groups who mislead the faithful and cause enormous confussion.
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 03:47 PM
Dear Scandinavian,

Yes, you are right . . .

And since one poster here has apparently excommunicated me from the Catholic Church, I may be seeking out an Orthodox parish before long . . .

Don't worry, I'll stay as far away from "patriarch Moisey" as possible! smile

(Are the fasting rules very rigorous in Orthodoxy these days? smile ).

God bless!

Alex
Posted By: Joe T Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 04:22 PM
Does "vagante" mean "those who like to dress up as bishops" in Ukrainian?

Joe
Posted By: Amadeus Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 04:22 PM
Dear Alex:

Better still, you might consider erecting the "Orthdox-Catholic Patriarchate of Toronto" to absorb the "disenfranchised" folks like you and me! wink

You could be our first Pope-Patriarch-Catholicos and I am available for ordination as a Metropolitan (at least!) by your Universal Holiness! biggrin

Amado
Posted By: incognitus Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 05:20 PM
Perhaps they might join the Patriarchate of Rockall.

Incognitus the Inquisitive Inquisitor
Posted By: Amadeus Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 05:36 PM
Dear Revered Inquisitive Inquisitor Incognitus: (whew!)

Did you say Patriarchate of Mockall? biggrin

Amado
Posted By: John K Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 06:36 PM
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Originally posted by incognitus:
Perhaps they might join the Patriarchate of Rockall.

Incognitus the Inquisitive Inquisitor
Speaking oF Rockall--Has anyone been there to visit the chapel of Bl. Jennifer Paterson??? I was wondering if there is an icon of her in it? I'd love it for my kitchen! biggrin
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 06:41 PM
Dear John,

She performed miracles at the stove, did she? wink

Alex
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 06:43 PM
Dear Joseph,

Actually, in Ukrainian, it would be "Ti scho udyahayutsia yak yepiskopy."

Alex
Posted By: John K Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/09/05 07:42 PM
Dear Alex--what she did in the kitchen was nothing short of miraculous! Heaven has gained a most welcome addition to their kitchens!

John
Posted By: Mexican Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/11/05 07:35 AM
"Patriarch" Moisey has answered!

From the expressions he uses it would seem as he was like a Pope or a super-patriarch.

The fact that the hierarchy lists is plenty of bishops, primates, vicars, metropolitans and archpriests all over the world make it look like that but it isn't.

He himself admits that some of his ex-bishops (who are now disident) only exist on the Internet:

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Ex-bishop Ioan (Miles) has only 2-3 parishioners as he told himself who come to his house to pray.
As I said in the past, I'm led to think that the main hierarchies of these Churches (KP, UAOC, UAOC-M) don't really know who they receive as priests outside their countries. They would seem Catholic looking or Eastern looking but they come from vagant groups whose orders are most likely invalid.

http://www.soborna.org/news_eng/news_162_05.htm
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/11/05 01:10 PM
Dear Mexican,

I disagree strenuously that the UOC-KP is anything like "Pat. Moisei's" group!

I actually knew someone who belonged to a non-canonical group who tried to become a member of the UOC-KP here.

After a period of examination of his credentials, he was rejected.

You shouldn't simply buy into the invective hurled against those Ukrainian Orthodox who want to have a Church free of Moscow's imperialism.

Alex
Posted By: Mexican Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/11/05 05:15 PM
I didn't mean to imply that the Kyivan Patriarchate was like these strange groups in question.

Of course I believe the KP to be real Orthodox even if they're schismatic in the eyes of Moscow (it's not important what I think but what millions of Ukrainians think).

The UKP in spite of the political disputes, is a legitimate attempt to create an Independent Church that the Ukrainians have yearned for so many years.

However, the KP (through an obscure Old Calendar group though) has indeed approved some Latin-American clergy whose orders are (probably) doubtful without confering ordination.
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/11/05 05:25 PM
Dear Mexican,

Then they did wrong - I'm not, by the same token, saying that everything the UOC-KP does is beyond reproach.

What is happening there is the result of centuries of not being in control of one's own destiny, as a country and as a church.

It will take time and struggle to set things aright.

Alex
Posted By: KO63AP Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/22/05 07:42 PM
The games continue...

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Bishop from Ecuador Withdraws from Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church-Canonical [risu.org.ua]
According to the Centre for Orthodox Unity, on 15 August 2005, Bishop Chrysostomos Celi, Ph.D of Ecuador submitted his formal withdrawal from the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church-Canonical (UAOC-C) to the church�s head, Patriarch Moisei (Kulyk) and asked for incardination into the Autonomous Ukrainian Orthodox Church in America. Bishop Chrysostomos joins an archbishop from Ukraine, one bishop from Ukraine and one from the U.S. in leaving the UAOC-C...
Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/22/05 07:47 PM
Dear Andriju X,

Do such people not fear for their salvation at all? wink

Alex
Posted By: Stephanos I Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/23/05 04:06 AM
Dear Brothers,
This is sad news. After a full month of being out of contact I almost forgot that the forum existed.
Good to be back from Scandinavia. (Pray for these poor countries.)
Stephanos I
Posted By: Mexican Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/23/05 03:11 PM
I fail to understand why a real Orthodox Church like the Orthodox Church in Ecuador (it has real priests, a real bishop and faithful coming from different backgrounds!) chooses to be in communion with a Church such as the Ukrainian Autonomour... who's not recognized by anyone and whoseexistence in America is mostly confined to the Internet.
Posted By: KO63AP Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/24/05 11:55 AM
The saga continues....

11 Hierarchs Leave Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church-Canonical [risu.org.ua] .

Σώσον, Κύριε, καί διαφύλαξον η�άς από τών Βασιλιάνικων τάξεων!
Posted By: Diak Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/24/05 01:48 PM
This from the AUOCA website:
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The Autonomous Ukrainian Orthodox Church in America respects and will not refuse the Sacraments to ROMAN and/or GREEK CATHOLICS who for just cause, spiritual necessity and/or when genuine spiritual advantage suggests it, follow their respective Codes of Canon Law...
Posted By: Diak Re: 3 Bishops Leave UAOC-C - 08/24/05 01:51 PM
And they have a monastery of Perpetual Eucharistic Adoration: http://www.ourchurch.com/view/?pageID=26889
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