www.byzcath.org
Holy Father Benedict XVI today at 12.00 announced, that he raised the Eparchy of Presov to the rank of the Metropolitan Church, naming bishop Jan BABJAK, SJ as first Metropolitan, raised the Exarchate of Kosice to the rank of an Eparchy, and erected new Eparchy in Bratislava (Slovak capital), and named Rev. Peter RUSNAK as first bishop of the newly created Eparchy.

To all Byzantine Catholics around the world, but first of all to Metropolitan Jan, Bishop Milan and bishop - elect Peter Many Years!!! Mnohaja lita!!! Mnoho rokov !!!
http://www.tkkbs.sk/view.php?cisloclanku=20080130001

Official announcement of the Press office of Slovak Conferrence of Catholic Bishops
Ordination of bishop - elect Peter RUSNAK will take place on Saturday, February 16th 2008
Follow the news here - http://www.grkat.nfo.sk/eng/metropolitan-church.html

More information and pictures coming soon.

Short bio of Bishop - elect Peter RUSNAK

He is a son of a Greek Catholic priest, who was expelled to Czech during Communist times.

In 1982, at the age of 32, entered the seminary in Bratislava. He was ordained a priest on June 16th 1987 in Pre�ov.

His priestly assignements included: Kapisova 1987-1988, Presov 1988 - 1990. In 1990 was assigned as spiritual director to the Byzantine Seminary in Presov and was much involved in rebirth of this instituion. Between 1995-1998 acted as episcopal vicar and chancellor of the Eparchy of Presov. During the years of 1990-2003 he taught Pastoral Theology and Homiletic at the Greek Catholic Theological Faculty of the University of Presov in Presov.

In 1998 came back to active ministry and was named as pastor to the city of Bardejov.

From 2003 was responsible as pastor and dean for diaspora of Byzantine Catholics in Bratislava .

On January 30 2008 was named by the Holy Faher Benedict XVI as first eparch for Bratislava.
Cathedral church of the Eparchy of Bratislava will be the church of the Exaltation of teh Holy Cross in Bratislava.

Web page of the cathedral

http://www.grkat.nfo.sk/Bratislava/english.html
And 3D panoramatical view of the new cathedral church - http://www.grkat.nfo.sk/Bratislava/3dpanoramy/

Thanks to Andreios we are proudly presenting you official Vatican link (However you need a little bit Italian to understand)

http://212.77.1.245/news_services/bulletin/notizia.php?lang=en&index=21602

Daniel

My question, is it neccessary and is there going to be more sensitivity to "all of the different ethnicities" that make up the Greek Catholic Church in Eastern Slovakia?

Ung
Glory to Jesus Christ! Slava IC XC!

Dear Ung - Certez

From your many posts in this forum, I bow down before your interest in our Churches; those descending from Mukachevo, or better said of the Union of Uzhorod.

And thus, I do not understand your question, if it is necessary. On Christian East is Metropolitan Church the only normal minimal form of the existence of the Church.

Our Church was struggling and praying to become Metropolia for many years. Mention about it was already in 1929 in Modus Vivendi between Czechoslovakia and the Holy See. Of course at that time were both Presov and Mukachevo integral part of CSR.

Now, our prayers (Our meaning all Byzantine Catolics in Slovakia) were answered and God gave us this gift. We all have to help to be a visible sign of his presence.

And at the press conferrence metropolitan Babjak said, he wants to be bishp for all, including of course Rusyns and also Hungarians.

I hope, that this will help us lead a better Christian life, otherwise it will stay only in the canon law level.

Daniel
Will the Metropolitan retore the faculties of Fr. Timkovich? Will he make sure the Rusyn villages are assigned Rusyn priests where the faithful want to celebrate the Divine Liturgy in the traditional Church Slavonic language and hear sermons in their native Rusyn language? Let us hope this canonical establishment does not become a vehicle for politics.

Ung
Glory to Jesus Christ!

Dear Ung - Certez

If you have the 1999 diectory of the Pittsburgh Metropolia, check out the St. Andrew parish in Westbury, Eparchy of Passaic: "the Church is neither Hebrew, nor Greek, nor Slavic, but universal..." Do not fall into a trap of national fights. This is temptation of evil...

When I had my pastoral year intership, I was assign to a parish in then Exarchate of Kosice, where I chanted Epistle in Rusyn at Church Slavonic liturgy and in Slovak at Slovak liturgy the whole year. And I do not consider myself Rusyn, but Slovak.

But the point is, that if there is will and Gods blessing, there is always a way...

Daniel
Administrator�s Point:

Stop changing the title to this thread! There have been five different changes to this thread�s title in the last couple hours. It makes it extremely difficult to monitor a thread for potential problems. If the title of this thread is changed again, I will lock it off.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+
Administrator
But the fact is that Rusyn Greek Catholics have been not treated well since 1990. Politics should never be used for political purposes in the administration of an Eparchy. My prayers go out to the Timkovich brothers who have been the subject of such unchristian political persecution and the faithful who have come to their defense.

Ung
Dear Ung - Certez,

I think, that I do not want to continue in this discussion.

May the Lord help us ALL better understand his will and give peace to our hearts, especially today, when we have a reason for solemn festivity...

Mnohaja lita to all Byzantine Catholics
http://www.geocities.com/timkovic2/causa_Vladimirus.html

Ung
http://212.77.1.245/news_services/press/vis/dinamiche/c1_en.htm

This is the official announcement in English

Mnohaja lita to all!!!
Well, the Czech and Slovak Orthodox Churches have an excellent established tradition of being sensitive to four ethnicities within their fold: Ukrainian, Russian, Czech and Slovak and they publish their calendar in those languages.

This is a good news announcement to be sure and all the best to the Slovak Greek-Catholics!

Alex
S.I.CH.
Metropololia i best for all people from slovakia and people at diaspors.Slovak rusin are part of slovaks republik like hungarien like germans like ukrainen. like polish ..........etc.
Brothers Timkovitch had great chances to show theirs profesionality to rusin nation. They lost. They lost time. If they are liv...1850--1950??????????????????
God bless our metropolitan Jan, our bishops Peter and Milan.

Let us remember our loving God metropolitan Jan our God loving bishops kir Milan kir peter and all of us................................
ortodox missing parissioners. And self control. You dont have good info.
They was administrators to comunist party.
Quote
Well, the Czech and Slovak Orthodox Churches have an excellent established tradition of being sensitive to four ethnicities within their fold: Ukrainian, Russian, Czech and Slovak and they publish their calendar in those languages.

This is a good news announcement to be sure and all the best to the Slovak Greek-Catholics!

Alex
and
Quote
ortodox missing parissioners. And self control. You dont have good info.
They was administrators to comunist party.
Vlad62

I think that Alex has suggested a good solution to the problem of the different linguistic needs of this new metropolia. I am surprised by the harsh response of Vlad62. Insulting the Orthodox will not help solve the problem in the Eastern Catholic metropolia. Maybe the Christians in Slovakia can learn something from the good relationship between ACROD and the Byzantine Catholic Church in the USA.
Also failing to see that there is a problem (Rusyn language and cultural rights) will also not help the situation.

And you believe these hateful fairytales?
http://212.77.1.245/news_services/b...NE_DELLA_CHIESA_GRECO-CATTOLICA_SLOVACCA

VATICAN CITY, 30 JAN 2008 (VIS) - The Holy Father:

...

- Reorganised the Greek-Catholic Slovak Church, making it a "sui iuris" Metropolitan Church and adopting the following provisions:

- Elevating the eparchy of Presov for Catholics of Byzantine rite (Catholics 137,203, priests 259, permanent deacons 1, religious 111) to the status of metropolitan see and promoting Bishop Jan Babjak S.J. of Presov to the office of metropolitan archbishop. The archbishop-elect was born in Hazin nad Chirochou, Slovakia in 1953, he was ordained a priest in 1978 and consecrated a bishop in 2003.

- Elevating the apostolic exarchate of Kosice for Catholics of Byzantine rite (Catholics 81,132, priests 161, permanent deacons 3, religious 65) to the status of eparchy, making it a suffragan of the metropolitan church of Presov, and appointing the current exarch, Bishop Milan Chautur C.SS.R., to the office of eparchal bishop.

- Erecting the eparchy of Bratislava for Catholics of Byzantine rite, making it a suffragan of the metropolitan church of Presov, and appointing Fr. Peter Rusnak, pastor of the Greek-Catholic parish of the Exaltation of the Cross in Bratislava and proto-preist of the proto-presbyterate of the same name, as first bishop of the new eparchy. The bishop-elect was born in Humenne, Slovakia in 1950, and ordained a priest in 1987.
NEC:ECE:NER/.../...VIS 080130 (250)

= = = = = = = = = =
there is already a topic for this - https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/276051#Post276051
Sounds like great news to me.I am friends with a priest in the area. Was warmly received by his congregation.
Stephanos I
Yes, sorry, missed the other posting and then couldn't delete this one.
http://www.grkat.nfo.sk/eng/metropolitan-church.html

Some information added - number of faithful, parishes of the new Eparchy of Bratislava, date of enthronisation etc.

Posted By: ajk Re: Byzantine Catholic Metropolia in Slovakia!!! - 01/30/08 11:07 PM
Originally Posted by Danielik
... Presov and Mukachevo ...

And what of the status (future) of Mukachevo in all this?
Originally Posted by andreios

And you believe these hateful fairytales?

May God bless the Timkovich brothers in their fight for justice,
Mnohaja i Blahaja L'ita!

Ung
Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

What will be interesting is if the Slovak eparchy in Canada is also incorporated into the new Archeparchal structure.

Poosh BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon
Originally Posted by Yuhannon
Shlomo Lkhoolkhoon,

What will be interesting is if the Slovak eparchy in Canada is also incorporated into the new Archeparchal structure.

Poosh BaShlomo Lkhoolkhoon,
Yuhannon

Dear brother in Christ!

There was no mentioning of Canadian Eparchy in Popes announcement yesterday, Eparchy of Ss. Cyril and Methodius is still directly under the Holy See of Rome.

Daniel
Originally Posted by Yuhannon
What will be interesting is if the Slovak eparchy in Canada is also incorporated into the new Archeparchal structure.

The Eparchy of Ss Cyril & Methodius will be a constituent canonical entity (sorry, but there's no better terminology available) of the Metropolia but, (sadly) as with all such in the diaspora, it will continue to be subject to the Congregation except as to matters liturgical - in that regard it would be subject to the Metropolia. Such would not typically be addressed in the announcement from Rome, as it's a foregone conclusion based on the concept of "historical bounds" to which Rome subjects our Churches.

Many years,

Neil
Beautiful Church - lovely icons - joyful choir.

But I'm a tad puzzled - how come the same people are "Greek Catholics" in Slovak but "Byzantine Catholics" in English?

Fr. Serge
How many Greek Catholic parishes could there possibly be in Western Slovakia that an Eparchy was established? Is the number less than 5?

Ung
Bless, Father Archimandrite!

"Byzantine Catholics" is a term that is more of an umbrella for various EC cultural groups that make up the BCC.

That is how it has been explained to me here (more than once!).

Alex
Originally Posted by Ung-Certez
How many Greek Catholic parishes could there possibly be in Western Slovakia that an Eparchy was established? Is the number less than 5?

Ung

Have a look here:

http://www.grkatpo.sk/fotoalbumy/grafika/450_6.jpg

On the territory of the Eparchy of Bratislava are already existing parishes, which are in black colour, those in red are places, where there are liturgies being celebrated, but there does not exist a parish, and in blue are proposed new parishes.

So, it definitelly more than five smile I believe, that you are happy with the growth of our Church

Daniel
So the are mission churches?

Ung
Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
Originally Posted by Yuhannon
What will be interesting is if the Slovak eparchy in Canada is also incorporated into the new Archeparchal structure.

The Eparchy of Ss Cyril & Methodius will be a constituent canonical entity (sorry, but there's no better terminology available) of the Metropolia but, (sadly) as with all such in the diaspora, it will continue to be subject to the Congregation except as to matters liturgical - in that regard it would be subject to the Metropolia. Such would not typically be addressed in the announcement from Rome, as it's a foregone conclusion based on the concept of "historical bounds" to which Rome subjects our Churches.

Many years,

Neil

Shlomo Abo Neil,

That is what I was wondering. I will be very happy when the colonial office is no more and we are treated more as equal Churches within our own communion.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon
Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
Beautiful Church - lovely icons - joyful choir.

But I'm a tad puzzled - how come the same people are "Greek Catholics" in Slovak but "Byzantine Catholics" in English?

Fr. Serge
Thanks. The reason is that in English is preferred the term Byzantine Catholic (cfr. byzcath.org and not greekcath.org) - and I think, this is the official term too. If you say Greek Catholic in English, someone could think ethnically Greek. While in Slovak "greckokatol�cky" is officially used and no one would think on Greece. Though, more and more is used "katol�ci byzantsk�ho obradu" or "katol�ci byzantsko-slovansk�ho obradu" in contemporary Slovak. But as an one-word adjective there is only "gr�ckokatol�cky" (and not "byzantskokatol�cky").

Originally Posted by Ung-Certez
How many Greek Catholic parishes could there possibly be in Western Slovakia that an Eparchy was established? Is the number less than 5?

Ung


The Preshov statistics says that there are 14 parishes, on my web there are only 10 listed (I have heard today, that they have created new parishes few days ago). The number of faithful is about 25.000.


Seminarian Daniel,

Slava Isusu Christu!

This is wonderful news for all the Greek Catholics in Slovakia and the world!

If you see Father Vladimir Varga at the ordination of Bishop Peter, please tell him hello and ask him if he got my package.

This elevation of our Church in Slovakia is very important to prevent its decline as our Greek Catholic people move from the villages and into the more prosperous cities. Most of the parishes are in villages; while there are numerous Roman Catholic churches in the cities which will absorb our members if there are not more parishes created. There will be a repeat of what we see here in America; the young people move to the cities and the Western USA where there are no Greek Catholics and our people become Roman.

You have good bishops who do not turn inward but are good shepherds for providing these missions which will become full parishes.

God is good, and is among His people!

Father Deacon Paul Bobovic
Well, the migration to the cities and to the western part of Slovakia is a real problem for our Church. The Byzantine Catholics often enter the first latin church and "become" Roman Catholics.

If Western Slovakia is mission territory for the Greek Catholic Church, why wasn't an Exarchate first established?

Ung
Originally Posted by andreios
Well, the migration to the cities and to the western part of Slovakia is a real problem for our Church. The Byzantine Catholics often enter the first latin church and "become" Roman Catholics.

On and on it goes.... frown
http://www.grkat.nfo.sk/eng/metropolitan-church.html

Some information added/updated - the dates or places of celebrations changed, I hope, this is the definitive version. (Without warranty.)

The website mentions--- Morning Office=Utiereň --- for the new cathedral church. Is this different from the RDL? Will i find this in my books?

I went to the Bratislava parish/cathedral website and am listening to their choir. I feel like I am in heaven.

Ed
Ed,

That is Matins and not the Divine Liturgy. Matins, along with Vespers are the hinge pins of the liturgical day. Sadly, most Byzantine Catholic churches in the USA celebrate neither. And no, Matins would not be in the new pew book.

John
Mnohaja i blahaja lita. God grant us many years.
At basic I allways using member of Byzantin because at short form show rite
Originally Posted by andreios
Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
Beautiful Church - lovely icons - joyful choir.

But I'm a tad puzzled - how come the same people are "Greek Catholics" in Slovak but "Byzantine Catholics" in English?

Fr. Serge
Thanks. The reason is that in English is preferred the term Byzantine Catholic (cfr. byzcath.org and not greekcath.org) - and I think, this is the official term too. If you say Greek Catholic in English, someone could think ethnically Greek. While in Slovak "greckokatol�cky" is officially used and no one would think on Greece. Though, more and more is used "katol�ci byzantsk�ho obradu" or "katol�ci byzantsko-slovansk�ho obradu" in contemporary Slovak. But as an one-word adjective there is only "gr�ckokatol�cky" (and not "byzantskokatol�cky").

The reason is complex and centers around history in the USA. I don't want to chance going off topic on this.
What does the establishment of the new Slovak Metropolia mean? Does Pre�ov ( with 137,000 members) now outrank its mother diocese Muka?evo (370,000, according to the Annuario Pontificio for 2007) ?

Will Muka?evo be the next Metropolitan Church?

John Schweich




Changed the date of the feast of the elevation of the Exarchate of Ko�ice to the Eparchy of Ko�ice. It will be celebrated in the Cathedral Church of the Nativity of Mother of God in Ko�ice on Monday February 18th 2008. So there are three big celebrations day after day.

http://www.grkat.nfo.sk/eng/metropolitan-church.html

Anyone ho desires to see the Sunday celebration, could see it on line in Slovak television - http://www.stv.sk/live/?2 - on Sunday 17th February, beginning at 10:00 a.m. local time (9:00 a.m. GMT, should be at 4:00 a.m. EST, 3:00 a.m. CST, 2:00 a.m. MST, 1:00 a.m. PST, if I counted well). The transmission should will take 2 hours.
John,

The Metropolitan Archbishop of Presov outranks the Bishop of Mukacevo, but Mukachevo is not part of the Metropolia, so it won't have much effect, except for when the Bishops are together. (Anyone please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

This is similar to the daughter Church in America "outranking" (with regard to hierarchy) the mother Church in Europe....now the daughter Church in Slovakia "outranks" the Mother Church in Transcarpathia. The Ukrainian Catholic Church would be the potential "limiting" factor for the Mukacevo eparchy (from additional eparchies and thus a Metropolia.)

I hope this answers your question.

Fr. Deacon Paul
It might be nice if one of these were elevated to a Major-Metropolitan. Then put all the others, including Pittsburgh, under it. There is strength in numbers.

Then perhaps put the Major-Metropolitan under Antioch of the Melkites, where they can count on receiving good impartial governance and guidance. There is no reason to have Roma choosing and elevating bishops when there is a perfectly good Eastern church structure to do it.

Just a thought.

Michael
Pictures from the Episcopal chirotonia of Bishop Peter (Rusnak), Eparch of Bratislava: http://foto.tkkbs.sk/viewer.php?album=albums/2008/02/16_POVysviacka&pn=1
Father Valerian,

Bless, Father. Thank you for the link - wonderful pictures. May God grant many years to Vladyka Peter. Eis polla aeti Despota!

Neil
I thought Roman Bishops weren't suppose to dress in Eastern vestments? Why did Cardinal Tomko wear his Roman Choir dress, then place a Byzantine short omorphor over this choir attire? I'm sure those in the Orthodox Church are wondering about this practice!

Ung
Dear Ung-Certez:

Cardinal Jozef Tomko (Roman Catholic hierarch, former prefect of Propaganda Fide) was the main celebrant... "ALL" vested in Byzantine vestments. He repeated 1990...when he was the principal celebrant for the chirotonia of Bishop Jan Hirka.The cardinal with the small omophorion is Cardinal Sandri, prefect of the Congregation for Eastern Churches. I wonder about this practice...
Fr. Valerian,

Slava Isusu Christu!

I thought this practice was suppose to end?

Ung
Dear Friends:

Glory to IC XC!

Pictures from today: http://foto.tkkbs.sk/viewer.php?album=albums/2008/02/17_POIntronizacia&pn=1
http://foto.tkkbs.sk/viewer.php?album=albums/2008/02/16_POVysviacka&pn=1

Got this from my pastor. From same website, but look like different pics from those posted by Fr. Valerian. Looks like my pics are from 2/16/08, while his are from 2/17/08.

Dn Robert
Interesting that Bp. Rusnak's epaulets at the bottom of his Mantiya are in Latin letters E P instead of Cyrillic characters.

So since Cardinal Tomko wore full Byzantine vestments, when did he recieve his bi-ritual status?

U-C
Dear Friends:

Glory to IC XC!

Here are the pictures from Kosice: http://foto.tkkbs.sk/viewer.php?album=albums%2F2008%2F02%2F18_KeEparchia&pn=1
Quote
So since Cardinal Tomko wore full Byzantine vestments, when did he recieve his bi-ritual status?

U-C

UC:

Glory be to Jesus Christ!! Glory be to Him forever and ever!!

I don't think bishops need a grant of bi-ritual faculties. If I'm not mistaken, this has come up before and bishops may vest in the vestments of another sui juris Church when they serve. As a function of the episcopate, they may serve in any of the sui juris Churches of the Catholic Church without any further grant of faculties.

BOB
Theophan,

Is that written somewhere in the Eastern Canons?

Ung
The question has been raised as to the status of Mukachevo. Technically, it is a part of UGCC. I am told that the prior Bishop, Ivan (Semedi), did not want that arrangement, but Rome has insisted on it. Bishop Milan (Shashik), from what I am told, attends the UGCC Synodal Episcopal meetings. Rome reasons that Zakapartia is politically part of Ukraine, and, therefore, it's particular church is part of the UGCC. The last time I checked the UGCC website, Mukachevo was listed as part of that Church.

Dn. Robert
Posted By: AMM Re: Byzantine Catholic Metropolia in Slovakia!!! - 02/25/08 02:49 PM
Fr. Deacon Robert, CNEWA says this

Quote
A continuing issue for Ruthenian Catholics has been their relationship with the much larger Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. For the first time ever, the Mukačevo diocese finds itself functioning freely in the same country with the Ukrainian Catholic Church. Although it is not officially a part of the Ukrainian church and is still immediately subject to the Holy See, its bishops have attended recent Ukrainian Greek Catholic synods. The bishop of Mukačevo has made it clear, however, that he opposes integration into the Ukrainian Catholic Church and favors the promotion of the distinct ethnic and religious identity of his Rusyn people. This identity received a boost in March 2007 when the Transcarpathian Oblast Council voted to recognize the Rusyn people as an indigenous nationality of the region. As a result, the local government will be required to provide funding to promote Rusyn language, culture, and education.

http://www.cnewa.org/ecc-bodypg-us.aspx?eccpageID=70&IndexView=toc
AMM,

This is something that will probably never go away. I went on to the UGCC website. In the past, they listed Mukachevo as part of the UGCC (wishful thinking?). Now, I can't find a breakout of Metroplolias and Eparchies with hierarchs, as done in the past. Maybe that's a "hot potato". I can affirm that most Rusyns don't want to be bundled in with Galicians. On the other hand, I am told that modern Ukrainian is the most commonly spoken language in Zakarpatia. Back in 1991, when Met. Stephen (Kocisko) went to visit the Uzhorod cathedral (now Greek Catholic, but then in the hands of the Moscow Patriarchate), my pastor tells me that the local TV station said that the Metroplitan spoke to the locals in "old Ukrainian". He was speaking Rusyn!

In Christ,
Dn. Robert
According to catholic-hierarchy.org, the Eparchy of Mukacevo is "immediately subject to the Holy See [catholic-hierarchy.org], whatever that means in regards to this issue. Of course, c-h.org isn't an official site, afaik.
Originally Posted by Mikey Stilts
According to catholic-hierarchy.org, the Eparchy of Mukacevo is "immediately subject to the Holy See [catholic-hierarchy.org], whatever that means in regards to this issue. Of course, c-h.org isn't an official site, afaik.

This is probably correct. It means that Mukachevo is immediately subject to the Congregation for Eastern Churches. This is what the Bishops of Mukachevo have preferred, as opposed to being part of UGCC. Based on what I had seen in the past on the UGCC website, I assumed the opposite to have been the case.

Dn. Robert
Father Deacon Robert,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

According to the Annuario Pontificio released by Fr. Ron Roberson, the �Eparchy of Mukacevo, Ukraine� is listed as part of the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church.

It is not listed as part of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.

This listing is consistent for 2007, 2006 & 2005.

Deacon El





Originally Posted by Deacon El
Father Deacon Robert,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

According to the Annuario Pontificio released by Fr. Ron Roberson, the �Eparchy of Mukacevo, Ukraine� is listed as part of the Ruthenian Byzantine Catholic Church.

It is not listed as part of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.

This listing is consistent for 2007, 2006 & 2005.

Deacon El

Deacon El,

I am now aware of that. However, about a year or two ago, I recall that the UGCC website had listed Mukachevo as part of its Church (or at least that's how I interpreted what they had posted). That's why I assumed that to be the case.

Dn. Robert
..still would like a canonical ruling on this question.

Ung
Ung,

What is the question you want answered that seesm to have gotten buried?

Fr. Deacon Lance
Can a Latin bishop dress in Byzantine vestments when concelebrating at a bishop's consecration/installation, or any liturgy concelebration?

Ung
Canon 701

A concelebration between bishops and presbyters of different
Churches sui iuris for a just cause, especially that of fostering
charity, and for the sake of manifesting unity between the Churches, can be done with the permission of the eparchial bishop, while observing all the prescriptions of the liturgical books of the principal celebrant, having removed any liturgical syncretism and wearing the appropriate vestments and insignia of his own Church sui iuris.

Canon 707

1. The preparation of the Eucharistic bread, the prayers performed by the priests before the Divine Liturgy, the observance of the Eucharistic fast, liturgical vestments, the time and place of the celebration and other like matters must be precisely established by the norms of each Church sui iuris.

2. For a just cause and having removed any astonishment on the part of the Christian faithful, it is permissible to use the liturgical vestments and bread of another Church sui iuris.

I would interpret this to mean that at inter-ritual concelebrations it is prefered that each bishop/priest/deacon wears his own Church's vestments but that is permissable to wear anothers.


I think Latin prelates should only wear their own Particular Church's vestments when concelebrating in Eastern Prticular Church liturgies. I don't think our Orthodox brethren want to see them in Eastern vestments, that it is somehow disrespectful.

Ung
I have to agree with Ung. Each rite should wear their own vestments and, IMHO, except for dire necessity, a heirarch of one rite should not preside at the Liturgy of another rite. Canon 707 makes it as clear as mud. To avoid the astonishment of the people?
Richard Cardinal Cushing (Memory Eternal!), the Archbishop of Boston who was a faithful friend of the Greek-Catholics (and recognized as such by no less an authority than Patriarch Maximos IV of holy memory) had a beautiful set of Byzantine Pontifical vestments, complete with Mitre, Pastoral Staff, and Dikero-Trikera, given him by a very well-known Eastern Orthodox family who were also among the major benefactors of the Greek Orthodox Holy Cross Seminary at Brookline, Massachusetts. I well remember Cardinal Cushing, thus vested, giving the Pontifical Blessing with the Dikero-Trikera to open the Divine Liturgy during which the first Melkite Greek-Catholic Bishop for the diaspora was consecrated. I do not remember any complaint or criticism from anyone.

Fr. Serge
Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
I well remember Cardinal Cushing, thus vested, giving the Pontifical Blessing with the Dikero-Trikera to open the Divine Liturgy during which the first Melkite Greek-Catholic Bishop for the diaspora was consecrated. I do not remember any complaint or criticism from anyone.

Bless, Father,

I agree, although I would note that we speculated previously on the possibility that His Eminence had been accorded faculties by His Beatitude - which would make the situation a bit different.

Many years,

Neil


And before anyone cites chapter and verse at me, ... yes, we both know that such a grant of faculties would run counter to protocol/accepted practice and we discussed that as well in a prior thread. However, to anyone who ever met either of these larger-than-life men, it would be difficult to conjure two hierarchs less likely to feel constrained by bureaucratic rules conceived by mutantes if they deemed it the right thing to do.

ceart go leoir!
Originally Posted by Serge Keleher
ceart go leoir!

ROTFL biggrin
Originally Posted by Hesychios
It might be nice if one of these were elevated to a Major-Metropolitan. Then put all the others, including Pittsburgh, under it. There is strength in numbers.

Then perhaps put the Major-Metropolitan under Antioch of the Melkites, where they can count on receiving good impartial governance and guidance. There is no reason to have Roma choosing and elevating bishops when there is a perfectly good Eastern church structure to do it.

Just a thought.

Michael

Agreed! In fact, one of our priests and I recently had this very conversation over lunch.

Dave
Err, isn't Pittsburgh the only metropolia or sui juris church currently in North America? It would seem kind of odd to suddenly elevate another see and structure a sui juris church under it, unless we created a pan-rite sui juris church, with a major archbishop that could come from any of the eastern churches???

hawk
Originally Posted by dochawk
Err, isn't Pittsburgh the only metropolia or sui juris church currently in North America? It would seem kind of odd to suddenly elevate another see and structure a sui juris church under it, unless we created a pan-rite sui juris church, with a major archbishop that could come from any of the eastern churches???

hawk

I think it's probably fair to say that were it not for the Iron Curtain of the Soviet Era, we would probably be subordinate to them right now; our priests and people came from there and that relationship would still be strong.

A sui iuris church of 2 archeparchies and 6 eparchies would certainly be stronger, and MAYBE some of the issues we have today would not have arisen . . .
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