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Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance Blessed Karl - 10/05/04 01:57 PM
I though that it was worth mentioning that Blessed Karl, Emperor of Austria, King of Hungary was beatified on 10/3. It is my understanding that both he and his wife Empress Zita were very good to the Greek Catholic Church in the Austrian/Hungarian Empire.
Posted By: anastasios Re: Blessed Karl - 10/05/04 02:56 PM
Empress Zita was at the installation of Bp Daniel Ivancho in Pittsburgh in 1950. It is said that she received communion at the altar. Anyone care to confirm or deny this report?

Thanks

Anastasios
Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance Re: Blessed Karl - 10/05/04 03:21 PM
Yes, I have seen pictures of this. The Emperor and Empress of Austria were extended the same privelege the Byzantine Emperor and Empress were given.
Posted By: anastasios Re: Blessed Karl - 10/05/04 04:32 PM
I think that's kind of cool wink
Posted By: byzanTN Re: Blessed Karl - 10/05/04 04:52 PM
I have always found the similarities between Karl and Nicholas II interesting. They were both astoundingly good and holy men, yet it seems as if Hell itself was arrayed against them.
Posted By: Pavel Ivanovich Re: Blessed Karl - 10/09/04 02:58 AM
I think Emperess Zita was responsible for the release from prison of Cardinal Tarpouni the Patriarch of the Syrian Rite during WWI. Upon his release he fled to the safety of the mountains in Lebanon.

I hope they move his body in to the family vault in Vienna. Emeress Zita is the only one of the family in the particular room under the church where they are all buried.
Posted By: incognitus Re: Blessed Karl - 10/16/04 05:20 PM
Metropolitan Andrew was close to Blessed Charles, and after being released from prison and coming to Rome, Patriarch Joseph kept in contact with Empress Zita (whose beatification is also in the pipeline). Blessed Charles, pray for us!
Incognitus
Posted By: defreitas Re: Blessed Karl - 10/19/04 06:58 PM
Dear Friends:

For anyone who is interested,

I have a number of Holy cards commemorating the Beatification of Karl of Austria.

If you send me your addresses I will be more than happy to mail you one or more.

Sincerely
Jose J. Lopes

my email number is defreitas_lopes@hotmail.com
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Blessed Karl - 10/19/04 07:15 PM
Dear Jose,

Thank you very much for your great kindness in sending me the cards you did.

They will be put to good use, I can assure you!

I'll have every monarchist this side of the 49th parallel using them.

Perhaps the monarchists to the south of us will follow suit as well!

Alex
Posted By: byzanTN Re: Blessed Karl - 10/19/04 07:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Dear Jose,

Thank you very much for your great kindness in sending me the cards you did.

They will be put to good use, I can assure you!

I'll have every monarchist this side of the 49th parallel using them.

Perhaps the monarchists to the south of us will follow suit as well!

Alex
I remember the story - and I do not promise my memory is always historically accurate - of the Emperor Franz Joseph meeting Teddy Roosevelt. When Teddy asked Franz Joseph "what do you do?" The Emperor replied, "I protect my people from the government." We could use a little protection from our government, at times. smile
Posted By: Lawrence Re: Blessed Karl - 10/19/04 08:15 PM
Here's the website for Blessed Karl's beatification http://www.beatificationemperorcharles.info/, and while I'm a staunch believer in the constitutional republican form of government, I readily admit that we often have legally elected scoundrels, and that not every monarch is a Saul, Ahaz, Herod, Ivan IV or Henry VIII.
Posted By: Lawrence Re: Blessed Karl - 10/19/04 08:33 PM
Don't know why the link isn't working, but that site is up and that address is correct.
Posted By: Tim Cuprisin Re: Blessed Karl - 10/19/04 08:36 PM
Drop the comma at the end.

http://www.beatificationemperorcharles.info/

--tim
Posted By: defreitas Re: Blessed Karl - 10/19/04 09:42 PM
Dear Friends:

As I understand, the Feast Day for the Blessed Karl is October 21st.

The interesting thing about this is that the date does not commemorate his birth or death but his wedding.

The Hapsburg family requested that his Feast should be honoured on that day.

We may yet see the pious servant of God Zita of Bourbon-Parma & Hapsburg also glorified.


Sincerely
defreitas
Posted By: Father Matthew Re: Blessed Karl - 10/20/04 12:10 AM
"Inasmuch as Austria, beside France, for some centuries had excercised a sort of patronage for the Catholic Christians of the Ottoman Empire, the Servant of God Karl of Austria also, at least once, had occasion of effectively exercising such "right." Because of a false accusation of high treason, Mons. Gabriel Tappouni, from 1929 Patriarch of Antioch for the Syrians of the ancient rite and, in 1935, first Syrian cardinal (d. 1965), and other priests of high rank of the Syrian Catholic Church were imprisoned and condemned to death. Unable to interfere personally in the affairs of a foreign country, the emperor had his consort Zita write a letter of supplication in favor of the condemned directly to the Sultan Mehmet V who then freed the condemned innocents.3"

3 Wilhelm de Vries, S.J., Haus Oesterreich und die Ostkirchen, in: Jahrbuch der Gebetsliga 1960, pp. 34-45; pp. 35 sg.

(From the document Il Servo di Dio Carlo d�Austria e i cristiani dell�Orient by Father Ambrozio Eszer.)


"At the invitation of the new Bishop, Empress Zita of the former Austro-Hungarian empire and her daughter, Archduchess Elizabeth, occupied places in the sanctuary." (Kalendar' Sojedinenija 1947, pg. 113)


"One touch of old-world splendor was added to the scene by the presence in the sanctuary, near the monsignori, of the former Empress Zita of Austria and her daughter, the Archduchess Elizabeth* Bishop Ivancho was born in the province of Podcarpathian Ruthenia while that province was still a part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

*The Empress, in occupying a place within the sanctuary, was exercising an ancient traditional privilege of her house."

From The Homiletic and Pastoral Review, Byzantine Episcopal Consecration by Clement C. Englert, C.SS.R., 1946, pg. 372
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Blessed Karl - 10/20/04 04:42 PM
Dear Lawrence,

Even Ivan IV has his canonization movement . . . wink

As for Henry VIII, he was, despite his divorces and separation from Rome as a result, devout to the end of his life.

He prayed the psalms and the rosary - his rosary is on display at one of the museums in London. Every evening at 5:45 pm in a hospital that he founded in London, the nuns gather to pray the rosary for his soul - the only payment in return for building the hospital that Henry VIII ever asked for.

He also contributed lavishly to the canonization cause of his predecessor, Blessed King Henry VI, whose cause has just now, in the pontificate of Pope John XXIII, been resumed (members of the Society of Henry VI, such as myself, have permission to refer to the king publicly as "Blessed.")

Some commentators have said that Rome just might have granted him his annulment from Catherine of Aragon for pressing state reasons.

It was just that the King of Spain had, at that time, invaded Rome and was keeping the pope as his prisoner.

The pope had no freedom to rule against the Spanish monarchy in any event.

Alex
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Blessed Karl - 10/20/04 04:55 PM
Bless, Father Matthew!

The Ukrainian Catholic theologian, Fr. Dr. Petro Bilaniuk, (+ memory eternal!) attended the funeral of the Empress Zita and read from scripture in Ukrainian.

(He was a life-long member of the Monarchist League of Canada)

The Habsburgs enjoyed an excellent reputation among western Ukrainians where there was a strong monarchist movement at the first world war.

Met. Andrew supported the Habsburgs and was on excellent relations with them, including "Basil Vyshyvany" Bernard Loehtringen who was once touted as a possible King of and independent western Ukraine (he spoke Ukrainian fluently and habitually wore an embroidered shirt etc.).

The Habsburgs were one of the more civilized CAtholic royal/imperial families of Europe and it is to be hoped that Empress Zita will join her husband in being paid the honours of the altar.

Alex
Posted By: Father Matthew Re: Blessed Karl - 10/20/04 07:51 PM
Alex,

In the same article by Fr. Ambrozio Eszer, there is commentary on the relationship between Blessed Karl and Metropolitan Andrew:

"III.1 If we take into consideration the relationships of the Servant of God with the Catholics of the Eastern Rite, in the first place it must be emphasized that he loved to attend the Byzantine liturgy very much because he was fascinated by the beauty of the ceremonies and the liturgical chants. With extraordinary zeal, he strove for the liberation of the Servant of God Andrew Sheptycky, Metropolitan of Lv�iv of the Ukrainians, who had been captured and imprisoned by the Russian authorities when the Russian army, in the autumn of 1914, had conquered a large part of Galicia. After the liberation of the Metropolitan, he came to be received by the emperor at the castle of Laxenburg near Vienna. A friendship between the two Servants of God, therefore, had its beginning, a friendship that was destined to last beyond the collapse of the empire inasmuch as the Metropolitan made a visit to the imperial couple in their Swiss exile."

Fr. Matthew
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Blessed Karl - 10/20/04 08:13 PM
Bless Father Mathew!

Thank you for that quote!

What always impressed me about him was his great piety whereby he knelt in the dirt, although he was imperial royalty, to hear daily Mass, that he never missed, even though he was in the midst of terrible political turmoils.

I also understand that the dictator of Hungary rejected the Blessed Emperor as King of Hungary and chose alliance with Hitler instead.

The man lived to regret his decision and asked Bl. Karl's son for forgiveness for rejecting his father. . . on his deathbed.

Alex
Posted By: Brian Re: Blessed Karl - 10/20/04 08:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Bless Father Mathew!

.

I also understand that the dictator of Hungary rejected the Blessed Emperor as King of Hungary and chose alliance with Hitler instead.

The man lived to regret his decision and asked Bl. Karl's son for forgiveness for rejecting his father. . . on his deathbed.

Alex
Admiral Horthy?
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Blessed Karl - 10/20/04 10:05 PM
Dear Brian,

Yep! You is right!

Alex
Posted By: Lawrence Re: Blessed Karl - 10/21/04 02:21 AM
Sorry Alex, but I see few redeeming qualities in Henry VIII. His devotion to the end (he was found of saying I'am a schismatic but no heretic) never stood in the way of his vicious dissolution of the monasteries, which turned out to be one of the worst economic disasters in English history. His brutal suppression of the Pilgrimage of Grace, the hanging drawing and quarterings of those who refused to recognise him as head of the church, not to mention his own adulterous life style that made Katherine Howard look like a nun, and of course his destruction of Becket's shrine.
Posted By: byzanTN Re: Blessed Karl - 10/21/04 02:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by defreitas:
Dear Friends:

As I understand, the Feast Day for the Blessed Karl is October 21st.

The interesting thing about this is that the date does not commemorate his birth or death but his wedding.

The Hapsburg family requested that his Feast should be honoured on that day.

We may yet see the pious servant of God Zita of Bourbon-Parma & Hapsburg also glorified.


Sincerely
defreitas
Hmmm - that would be tomorrow. Any suggestions for possible devotions to use, since there aren't any printed devotions or prayers available?
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Blessed Karl - 10/21/04 12:52 PM
Dear Lawrence,

My point is that we sometimes like to draw black and white lines in the sand with respect to historical figures.

The Catholic King of Spain at the time took the pope hostage and slaughtered many Romans in the streets, whose bodies rotted to high heaven etc.

That Henry VIII was a cruel monarch is true. That there are monarchs in the calendar of saints who did similar things to Henry VIII (including Charlemagne) is also true.

And no one wishes to canonize Henry VIII. His often cruel reactions had to do with perceived threats to his authority.

The shrine of St Thomas Beckett was long regarded with suspicion by England's monarchs even before Henry's time because the iconography at Canterbury showed scenes of what seemed to be treacherous activity i.e. the monks whipping Henry II as part of his penance etc.

There were many who regarded Beckett as a traitor in England as well and during the Reformation they attacked his icons on walls in churches not primarily due to their iconoclasm (that came later with the Puritans) but because they considered him a traitor and his cult as one that preached sedition.

Catholic kings before this were also engaged in similar such attacks on saints and potential saints.

Simon de Montfort, for example, was locally venerated as a saint by the English Franciscans for about fifty years (the rules for public veneration weren't as strict then).

The problem was that he was not only killed physically, but also spiritually, and died excommunicated.

This was used as a pretext to stop his cult in its tracks, even though the fact of someone's excommunication did not prevent them from having it lifted later (St Joan of Arc) and becoming a saint.

And the time of Henry VIII brought to a head centuries of English Catholic issues with Roman jurisdiction over the English Church.

Canterbury's Archbishops, such as Stephen Langton, had long protested the Roman practice of appointing foreign bishops over their heads to English bishoprics.

For this reason, although Langton was locally honoured as a saint in England, there was no question he would ever be canonized by Rome.

Alex
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Blessed Karl - 10/21/04 12:55 PM
Dear Karl, I mean, Charles,

There is the Service to any Saint at the back of the General Menaion.

There is also an Akathist at "akafist.narod.ru" that is designed to honour any saint not yet having an akathist.

That would have to be translated though.

Or one could simply honour him with the general, one-size-fits-all invocation:

Pray unto God for us, Blessed Karl, well-pleasing to God, for we sincerely approach you as our quick helper and intercessor!

Alex
Posted By: Brian Re: Blessed Karl - 10/21/04 03:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:

The Catholic King of Spain at the time took the pope hostage and slaughtered many Romans in the streets, whose bodies rotted to high heaven etc.
And no one wishes to canonize Henry VIII. His often cruel reactions had to do with perceived threats to his authority.

Catholic kings before this were also engaged in similar such attacks on saints and potential saints.
Alex
Well, it makes one take to heart the Psalm "put not your trust in Princes" even Catholic Princes! biggrin
Posted By: Fr. Deacon Lance Re: Blessed Karl - 10/21/04 03:51 PM
"Hmmm - that would be tomorrow. Any suggestions for possible devotions to use, since there aren't any printed devotions or prayers available?"

Almighty God, Lord of Lords and King of Kings, in Your infinite fatherly love you are keeping watch over the fate of men and nations. You called Your servant, Emperor and King Charles of the House of Austria, to serve as a father to his peoples in difficult times and to promote peace with all his strength. By sacrificing his life, he sealed his willingness to fulfill Your holy will.

Grant us the grace, with his intercession, to follow his example and serve the true cause of peace, which we find in the faithful fulfillment of Your holy will. We ask this through him, Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with You and the Holy Spirit, one God, forever and ever. Amen.



Prayer for special grace through the intercession of the Servant of God Emperor and King Charles of the House of Austria



Holy Trinity, I adore you from the bottom of my heart and thank You for the gifts you have granted to the Servant of God Charles of the House of Austria. As a result of his deep Faith, he gave his entire life in selfless and willing service to Your divine Glory and the well-being of those entrusted to him.

Strengthen us through his helping intercession when discouragement, loneliness, lack of readiness to forgive others, and sickness oppress us, and grant us through his intercession a good death.

Through the intercession of the Servant of God Charles of the House of Austria. In Your mercy also hear my personal request�

Praise and thanks be to You, eternal and almighty God, now and forever. Amen.


A Novena booklet in PDF format:
http://www.beatificationemperorcharles.info/Doc/Kaiser%20Karl%20Brosch._engl.pdf
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Blessed Karl - 10/21/04 05:29 PM
Dear Father Deacon Lance,

I think my response was more Eastern . . . smile

Perhaps Bl. Karl should be honoured by EC churches for his protection of them and for assisting Met. Andrew?

Perhaps Iconophile could do an icon of him?

I would work on an akathist . . .

Alex
Posted By: incognitus Re: Blessed Karl - 10/23/04 09:00 AM
Eternal Memory!
The Imperial Austrian Anthem

In honour of the recent beatification of the Blessed Emperor Charles, we offer here the Ukrainian text of the Imperial Austrian Anthem. The air is that composed by Haydn for Gott erhalte unsern Kaiser. The Ukrainian text is taken from the prayer-book Anhel Khoronytel�, published by the Catholic Book and Church Supply Company, New York, 1915:

Bozhe, budy pokrovytel�
Tsisariu, Jeho krajam!
Kripkyi viroju pradytel�
Mudro naj provodyt� nam!
Pradidnu Jeho koronu
Boronim vid voroha!
Tisno iz Hapsburgiv tronom
Splelas� Avstryi sud�ba!

Chestno, virno, pravo shchyro
Dovzhnist�, pravdu , berezhim,
A v potrebi z kripkov virov,
Bodrym dukhom v biy idim!
Pamiatni na vojyniv slavu,
Shcho krasyt� jikh khoruhov,
Za Tsisaria, za derzhavu,
Zhertvujmo majno i krov!

Shcho naroda sklaly ruky,
Vojniv mech naj sterezhe,
Svitlo pravdy i nauky
Temnotu naj rozzhene!
Shchedro naj na kraj splivaje
Shchastja razom z slavoju,
Myrom sol�ntse naj syjaje
Na shchaslyvu Avstryju!

Razom kripko sia derzhim;
Z�hodov syl�nyj bude ljud;
Razom syly spoluchim
Dvyhnym i najtjavshyj trud.
Z�hidni, jedni v spil�nij spravi,
Tsil� naj bude vsim odna:
Shchast� Tsisarju, shchast� derzhavi!
V vik postojit� Avstrija!

[This final verse is inappropriate for use, since it refers by name to Emperor Francis Joseph and Empress Elisabeth, who are both long deceased and to whom, therefore, we may not wish long life in this world. The verse is given here as a matter of historical interest:

Pry Tsisarju tron zasila,
Sertsem kroviju ridna
Tsisareva nasha mila
V nevjalu krasu strijna!
Schcho najbil�shym shchast�jem svitu,
Daj Jim Bozhe z nebesy!
Frants Iosyfa, Jel�savetu,
Ves� Habsburgskij Dom spasi! ]

Enjoy.
Incognitus
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Blessed Karl - 10/23/04 11:50 AM
Bless, Father Incognitus,

I salute you and affirm my admiration for you, once more! smile

Alex
Posted By: Father Matthew Re: Blessed Karl - 10/23/04 05:23 PM
And if you'd like to hear it sung in German (with the verse for Archduke Otto) see this site:

http://www.twschwarzer.de/kaiserld.mp3


And for Italian, try this one:

http://www.kuk-ir97.com/inno.mp3
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Blessed Karl - 10/25/04 01:26 PM
Bless, Father Matthew!

I distributed Bl. Karl prayer-cards at our pilgrimage on Sunday, through the kindness of our member, Jose.

Last night, one of the Sisters in attendance contacted me and asked me to translate the prayer on the back into Ukrainian.

Her father loved Bl. Karl and she would like to further spread the word about him via the Ukrainian language.

I'll get right on it!

Alex
Posted By: lpreima Re: Blessed Karl - 10/25/04 07:28 PM
Dear Father Matthew,
Is that you singing the German Version? You should leave modesty aside and let me congratulate you for the beautiful voice that you have. You need to brush up a little on you German pronunciation though.
Lauro
Posted By: Father Matthew Re: Blessed Karl - 10/26/04 04:20 AM
No, no, that is not I at all. I have no idea who it is but it sounds as though it was from a record. Would that I could sing so well!

Fr. Matthew
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Blessed Karl - 10/26/04 05:04 PM
Bless, Fr. Matthew,

Could you share any information about the process of Bl. Karl's wife, the Empress Zita?

Alex
Posted By: Father Matthew Re: Blessed Karl - 10/26/04 07:04 PM
Alex,

I haven't heard anything about that though I did see her and Karl's picture on the cover of an English translation of a book by a German theologian on saintly men and women in modern times, including married couples. Karl and Zita were both profiled in that book. I don't remember the name of it but I did see it on a bookstore shelf in January.

Fr. Matthew
Posted By: Father Matthew Re: Blessed Karl - 10/28/04 02:26 AM
Alex,

Here's the title of the book:
Married Saints and Blesseds: Through the Centuries
by Ferdinand Holbock, Michael J. Miller
You can find the book at Amazon.com

Fr. Matthew
Posted By: Woody Jones Re: Blessed Karl - 10/30/04 06:01 AM
In some desultory reading of Joseph Roth, Austrian novelist and Jewish convert to Catholicism and monarchism, I found that he said that it was the non-German subjects of the Habsburgs who were the more loyal to them than the Germans, who hankered after unification with Germany. The protagonist of his novel, "The Radetzky March" [which he says is the anthem of conservatism] is a Slovenian member of the minor nobility.

BTW, on my trip to Vienna last November, I saw, I believe, the famous icon of Mariapoch in St. Stephen's Cathedral, where it was the focus of great veneration. I also visited the Capuchin Crypt, where the Habsburgs are interred, and my memory is that Empress Zita's sarcophagus is in the same room (the "new chapel") with Kaiser Franz Joseph, and, yes, only a small monument to Kaiser Karl, whose incorrupt body remains in Madeira (too great a pilgrimage/tourist attraction there, I hear, for them to let him go).

All the best,
Woody
Posted By: defreitas Re: Blessed Karl - 10/30/04 04:18 PM
Dear Woody:

I don't think that it has anything to do with the site of the Blessed Karl's tomb being a tourist attraction.

You hardly hear it mentioned at all in any secular situation.

The people themselves have developed a local cultus to the Blessed Karl and indeed proclaimed him a saint the moment he died.

If you read the directives regarding the saints, you will note that local veneration is the primary indicator of sainthood for any servant of God.

The Habsburg family understands this fully, and are more than willing to leave their father resting in the Cathedral of Nossa Senhora do Monte, in Madeira.

I myself feel sad that the relics will not be enshrined in his homeland.

But given the animosity, if not open hostility, of many modern Austrians to the memory of the Hapsburgs, then I would rather have him in a place where he is loved.

Nothing is perfect in this world.


Sincerely
defreitas
Posted By: Father Matthew Re: Blessed Karl - 11/20/04 05:22 PM
Today, 20 November 2004, is the 92nd birthday of Archduke Otto, Blessed Karl's eldest son. He attended the beatification ceremonies in Rome and also the feastday celebrations on 21 October 2004 at Funchal, Madeira, where his blessed father is laid to rest.

Fr. Matthew
Posted By: Orthodox Catholic Re: Blessed Karl - 11/20/04 05:36 PM
Many Years!

Ad Multos Annos!

May the Habsburgs return to their ancestral throne(s) one happy day!

Alex
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