Today the primate of the UGCC His Beatitude Patriarch Svyatoslav announced the decision of the Synod of the UGCC to adopt the Reformed Julian Calendar beginning on September 1, 2023.

He said that 90% of those polled in Ukraine want the change. He also said that those parishes, with the blessing of their respective Eparchs, may continue with the Julian calendar if they so desire but only until 2025.

There was a time that I used to come out in defense of the Julian calendar, but over the years I grew wiser and I even came to admire AJK here!

I applaud the change and may it bring calendar calm and unity to the UGCC and the Orthodox Church in Ukraine (together with all the Ukrainian Protestants who have already adopted the Gregorian calendar) now and always.

Many Years to the Synod of the UGCC for this move!

"Amen" to that. Thank you, OC. It's also worthy to note that in Ukraine the UGCC will keep the Julian Pascalion.

Dear Utroque,

You aren't a "Utraquist" by any chance . . .? Would you care to explain your moniker that I've always found fascinating!

Yes, the Reformed Julian calendar, which many Orthodox Churches follow, is what is being adopted by the UGCC.

So far, and this obtains in the Byzantine Catholic Church in America, to be on the Gregorian Calendar means that one does not follow the Orthodox Easter date.

And those UGCC parishes who are on the Gregorian calendar follow the Western paschalion.

I understand that talks are under way to establish a COMMON date for Pascha East and West in 2025, the 1700th anniversary of the First Ecumenical Council. May God grant it to be so!

I read one member of the UOC-MP responding to the news of the UGCC moving to the Reformed Julian Calendar saying that "These (EC) heretics can follow whichever calendar they wish - the voodoo calendar included!'

Not very ecumenical . . . But I doubt if he is a member of the FSB - sounds like he actually has some theological background. .

I was too quick to name this thread - it really should be "Revised Julian Calendar"

Any word if the Eparchy of Mukachevo will also go to the Revised Julian Calendar/Gregorian Calendar as well?

Was the Orthodox Church of Ukraine already using the Revised Julian Calendar?

I certainly like seeing more unity in this area, but it always struck me as inconsistent to still use the Julian dating for Pascha. I sincerely hope that we can all celebrate Pascha on the same day in the future.

Christ is in our midst!!

I believe that the Orthodox Church in Ukraine gave parishes the option to use the Revised Julian calendar.

I'm not an Hussite, but must admit that their point of view has some merit and has helped bring me East, as reception under both species completes the sacramental signification in the Eucharist. My moniker comes from the fact that for a good part of me long life of tried to "breathe with BOTH lungs" as it were; not to mention that, although born in Boston, my maternal and paternal roots are solidly Canadian Maritime.

Be that as it may, my understanding is that His Beatitudes has decided that as of September 1, 2023 that parishes of the UGCC in Ukraine have the option of following the Gregorian calendar for fixed feast like Christmas (December 25) and will only follow the Reformed Julian Calendar for the Paschalion (those moveable feasts of Pascha & Pentecost). Do I have that correct?

Yes, the eparchy is switching as well: Article. [suspilne.media]

What is the rationale for this and why now?

The Ruthenians (Мукачівська греко-католицька єпархія) are going to the Gregorian Calendar and the Ukrainians in Ukraine to the New Style (Українська Греко-Католицька Церква в Україні переходить на новий стиль) but "a new style for immovable holidays with the preservation of the current Easter" ( на новий стиль ...чинної Пасхалії.).

So a mixed Gregorian or "Revised Julian" with the old Julian Paschalion. For both Churches? This mixed combination is guaranteed to produce conflicts in the harmony of fixed and movable feasts and traditional fasts. Surely the bishops are aware of this, so why choose it?

Is this motivated by church or secular politics, or theology?

"Is this motivated by church or secular politics, or theology?"

Perhaps none of these. As the OP hoped in paragraph 4 at the beginning of the thread, maybe its motivated by " calendar calm" and " unity"............

If so, not bad reasons but not the best either. I'd hope theology would be the driving factor for a church.

I've heard the term "politics" used in other contexts, but I think we need to be careful how it is used as it can have different tinges of meaning.

Yes, the move to the new calendar has a lot to do with what is better to call "cultural" concerns, that being to move as far away as possible from the Russian World ideology and Russian culture.

But this has been in the works for a long while. Belarus, for instance, declared both December 25th and January 7th as "Christmas days." Today, though, 90 percent of Belarusians celebrate Christmas on December 25th, keeping the rest of the Julian calendar in place . . .

In Ukraine, it was found that 90 percent of the Greco-Catholics want the Gregorian Calendar. Those parishes, if there will be any, who find they cannot move to the new calendar, have until 2025 to join in, during which time they are to reflect on the reasons surrounding the usefulness of the new calendar. As for the Paschalion, I understand that there are plans in the works to mark the 1700th anniversary of the First Ecumenical Council in 2025 with the announcement of a COMMON DATE OF EASTER for both Catholic and Orthodox Churches. That is what I've been hearing. Please God may it happen!

From a pastoral and spiritual point of view (I don't really see what the calendar question has to do with theology), those Ukrainians I know, including Orthodox (the OCU will have its Synod or Sobor in May to decide this question - it will be a good decision too! ), will be able to move away from a "deification of the calendar" to having the time to not only hold their folkloric Christmas Eve supper celebrations but also attend Church! The way so many are doing it today is to stuff themselves turkey on December 25th, go skiing or on vacation until New Year's and then have an abbreviated Christmas Eve supper that has more in common with ancestral culture than with Christianity, excusing themselves from Church at midnight or the next day because of work and school commitments . . . Thus a generation of unchurched youth have been raised! And I know because I've been asked far too many times by my friends to act as an unofficial officiant for their children's weddings which they refuse to hold in church!

Ultimately, politics has always been involved in both Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Many decry how the Russian Orthodox Church blesses Russian soldiers to go to Ukraine and murder civilians, including children (there are videos of ROC priests doing just that such as on risu.ua). But there have been Byzantine emperors who received blessings from patriarchs to do the same thing in history - as one Orthodox theologian and historian has recently pointed out to me.

Can't wait to see how my own parish, staunchly old calendarist, will be taking this news and how our priests will explain things to them . . .

Alex

The point I made as a question I now say (again) directly: The calendar has -- should have -- everything to do with theology, specifically liturgical theology. Instead it is seen as a device to be manipulated and used for various agendas that have too often poisoned the people -- an elixir of polemics.

What is the Typicon, which directs our liturgical and devotional life, but the calendar. The calendar is the foundation of liturgical theology as experienced by the churches today. If the theological essence of the calendar is abandoned, even minimized, then it is just a tool, a prod, a shield an idol, as it has indeed become for some.

If the calendar is not theology then it is arbitrary, and we are fools to knock ourselves out about, for instance, the observance of Pascha, and other quaint customs that we say we cherish. In 2025, after the coincidental common observance of Easter, and in honor of Nicaea+1700, church leaders and "influencers" (e.g. monks of Athos) should assemble and, in the spirit of ecumenism, each are issued a dart, the one closest to the bullseye chooses the preferred date: the Russians the Julian; the EP, working to abandon the Julian Paschalion for the past 100+ years, can choose the Aleppo proposal; the Anglicans the date that best accommodates commerce, banking, school calendars etc.; the Catholics the ...? One might expect the Gregorian but more likely, the others would be asked to throw again, relieving Catholics of any appearance of leadership or responsibility, preferring to just follow suit. (After all, VCII had even hinted at abandoning the 7 day week).

and yet we all pray for our own in the liturgy without reservation.

ajk, you are obviously well informed and versed in dogmatic theology. I am sure way more than me, but I respectfully submit the following comments.

"The point I made as a question I now say (again) directly: The calendar has -- should have -- everything to do with theology, specifically liturgical theology. Instead it is seen as a device to be manipulated and used for various agendas that have too often poisoned the people -- an elixir of polemics."

May I suggest that the longing for ecumenism, for Church unity, is also theological, perhaps more so than the calendar. The whole Calander " deification" -as ironically referred to earlier-reminds me of Mark 2:27. If I dare paraphrase that Gospel passage....The Church was not made for the Calender, the Calender was made for the Church."

Now as far as employing polemics:

"Russians the Julian; the EP, working to abandon the Julian Paschalion for the past 100+ years, can choose the Aleppo proposal; the Anglicans the date that best accommodates commerce, banking, school calendars etc.; the Catholics the ...? One might expect the Gregorian but more likely, the others would be asked to throw again, relieving Catholics of any appearance of leadership or responsibility, preferring to just follow suit. (After all, VCII had even hinted at abandoning the 7 day week)."

That quote is a great example of polemics, because it is not meant to just illustrate a point, but to judge and insinuate.

Hutsul, thanks for your comments. I reply here not to challenge you but to clarify and further develop what I wrote.

Yes, unity is fundamental and foundational. That is why I object to it being used as the catch-all to justify comfortable opinions that need not even consider facts. Is the calendar liturgical theology or is it not? Should Christianity, the liturgical churches, abandon the calendar, the typicon? Who is advocating or guilty of this Calendar "deification"? Did Nicaea mandate not just unity but uniformity in observing Pascha? What is the basis for achieving such uniformity if not the Scriptures and tradition?

Is not that "great example of polemics" in my post an example for achieving unity above all else? What I wrote is not (just) parody but sadly quite factual. If I mischaracterized anyone, however, let me know because I was not insinuating but stating. And what was my judgement (I didn't think I had given one)?

Dear AJK,

Beginning with your last comment - prayer for one's national armed forces is NOT the moral equivalent, if you are suggesting it is, of the Russian Orthodox Patriarch and his bishops blessing the invasion and consequent rape and slaughter of the people of a country that the Moscow patriarchate itself has always deemed to be a "brother nation!"

If you think that it is, that is your prerogative. we live in democracies and not in Russia that passes laws determining what words one can or cannot use without stiff penalties being meted out.

No one, not the least myself, is arguing that the Christian calendar is about theology etc. I thought what we were talking about was the Julian vs Gregorian calendar and adopting one over the other. That is all. it is not about abrogating any festal days or anything like that.

If you are saying the Gregorian calendar adoption by the UGCC is political - I agree wth you,, it is. Yes, Ukraine wants to get away from the "Orthodox Christianity of Russia" (which is more of an ideology of the Russian Federation and therefore has little to do wth the Gospel), The UGCC has also been having to deal with two calendars for a long time. There are genuine pastoral issues that have evolved from both the dual calendar issue as well as with the weakening of liturgical celebrations on the Julian calendar but that is grist for another thread. I'm not saying that the calendar is ONLY about politics, but it is, and always has been, involved with social, cultural, political and pastoral issues - not only theology.

You can take this up with our Hierarchs and our Primate. I'm sure they would be thrilled to hear from you . . .

Alex

That the church does and should bless persons (here soldiers) and not automatically and necessarily their policies and practices.


I am emphatically so arguing: That, regarding the calendar, its issues and use, it is time for the dog -- theology -- to finally start wagging the tail -- history, culture, society, pastoral sensitivity, politics, etc. -- and not the other way around.

Yes, with respect to blessing soldiers, the Church does do that.

The Moscow Patriarchate is on record as having gone well beyond a simple blessing, however. It is directly tied in with the Russian Federation and its imperialist "Russky Mir" Russian World ideology - a perspective Orthodox theologians have called "heretical" to boot.

I was simply commenting on your comment that appeared you were making a moral equivalency between the first and the second points. And I said there is no moral equivalency and that if you were indeed saying there was - and only you know for sure, Father Deacon, then you were wrong - as I'm sure you would agree.

I made a typo in the second pjoint and meant to say that no one is saying the calendar is NOT about theology.

But theology isn't all there is to the specific issue (there can and should be a separate thread on the theology of the calendar) of WHICH calenndar to use - Julian or Gregorian.

That issue is less about theology and in this case, it is about politics, culture etc.

One could also have a thread on the benefits of bringing social science insights into pastoral curricula. The UGCC Primate and his bishops are having some very good on the job training in that regard - under Russian rocket fire to boot.

I just don't like your combative attitude and your quickness to jump on things that aren't there. Cheers.

Isn't the UGCC's answer - the Reformed Julian Calendar? If so, would a moderator please change this thread's title accordingly.

I'm somewhat baffled by the timing of the announcement. Just two months ago, according to a RISU article [risu.ua], His Beatitude Svyatoslav said that war is not the time to discuss calendar issues and that any changes should be made in conjunction with the other Ukrainian Churches.

It seems to me, then, that the synod was moved by the results of some poll (that dealt with the calendar and which was conducted during a war).

Christ is in our midst!!

Roman,

I will change the title, if that's what is needed. But first let's find out exactly what liturgical calendar is being implemented.

Bob
Moderator

My understanding is that the UGCC as of September 1, 2023 will be using the Gregorian Calendar for fixed feasts, and the Reformed Julian Calendar only for the Paschalion. I see no need to change the title of the thread.

I've been reading calendar-related post for some time now, but apparently not enough (I thought that "Reformed Julian" meant old-style Paschalion & new-style fixed feasts).
Doesn't "Gregorian Calendar" imply new-style Paschalion?

The Gegorian and Julian calendars each have their own Paschalion which is intimately linked with the respective calendar.
The Gregorian and Revised Julian calendars are the same from 1 March 1600 through 28 February 2800.
The Revised Julian calendar does not have a traditional Paschalion but relies on detailed astronomical calculations of the full moon to determine Pascha.

I'd expect that using the Gregorian calendar would imply using its Paschalion but that need not be the case.

The Gregorian Paschalion predicts Pascha in accord with the biblical directives for Passover and nature, and is in harmony with fixed feasts of both the Gregorian and Revised Julian calendars.

The Julian Paschalion most often does not predict Pascha in accord with the biblical directives for Passover and nature, but it is in harmony with respect to its fixed feasts.

The Revised Julian calendar is more Gregorian than Julian. The Gregorian calendar is more Julian in its approach and methodology than is the Revised Julian calendar compared to the Julian.

Imposing the Julian Paschalion on either the Gregorian or Revised Julian calendars produces a misalignment or mismatch between the calendars' fixed feasts and the movable feasts tied to Pascha, and on that basis might properly be termed the Confused Julian calendar.

Thank you, ajk, for all of your posts on the calendar topic.
I've read a number of items on this topic over the years, but I'm still somewhat perplexed.
For example, I don't see what the purpose of the Revised Julian calendar is.
As you have mentioned, for the next 780 years or so, it's the same as the Gregorian calendar.
For someone hearing the term "RJC" for the first time, would it not be logical to (incorrectly) conclude "Julian Paschalion + Gregorian fixed feasts"?

With regards to the UGCC and the announcement, does it apply to the entire Church, or only to Ukraine?
I understand that there are still some parishes in the Toronto eparchy that want to keep the old Julian calendar.
Last I heard, in the Toronto eparchy, it was up to each parish to decide which calendar to use, both for fixed and movable feasts.

Right (and you are welcome), the same until 28 February 2800, on purpose I'd say, tactfully delaying the issue while producing an Orthodox (acceptable?) calendar for now.

I sympathize with bishops not wanting to foment schism but it's been 441 years already. It's about time to tell the people the truth and demand they follow it. There's a laudable100 year effort of the EP to achieve a unified Pascha observance for all the Churches -- TOWARDS A COMMON DATE OF EASTER: REMAINING FAITHFUL TO NICAEA -- and the Church of Toronto can't achieve it within its own self.

The Ukrainian Catholic Eparchy of Toronto and Eastern Canada . . .

My parish of St Nicholas has seen the circulation of a questionnaire where the respondent (anyone who is a member in good standing in the parish) is asked which calendar he or she would like: Gregorian, Reformed Julian or Julian.

Results will be tabulated in a few weeks but I've heard a majority of returns so far indicate support for the reformer Julian calendar ie. the same calendar the UGCC in Ukraine is moving to on September 1st of this year and which the Orthodox Church in Ukraine (Ecumenical Patriarchate) has already allowed its parishes to adopt but which will make a church-wide decision on during their Sobor in May.

And yes, there was a parish meeting on Sunday last where this matter came up and some individuals expressed strong opposition to the adoption of anything but the Julian calendar. It seemed to me that they were ill-informed about the nature of the directives given by our Patriarch Svyatoslav and his Synod. These clearly said that if a parish finds it cannot move to the Reformed Julian calendar (the term "New Julian Calendar" is what is preferred in the Ukrainian), then, with the blessing and permission of their Eparch, such parishes may remain on the Julian Calendar until September 1, 2025 when the New Julian calendar will become normative. During that period of time, the old calendar parishes are to receive education about the calendar issue in preparation for September 1, 2025. That is how I understand our patriarch's directives.

The questionnaire, in my personal view, does not provide the necessary context and so comes across as a "take your pick" with respect to the calendar issue when it isn't. It is more an issue of "adopt it now or adopt it after you've had a chance to get educated as to why you will be adopting it."

For example, there are those who actually think they are celebrating Christmas on January 7th. Where is there a liturgical service book that indicates that date? They indicate the feast of the Nativity of OLGS Jesus Christ on . . . December 25th!

And because the year of our Lord 2025 marks the 1700th anniversary of the First Ecumenical Council, Rome and Constantinople will, to mark the occasion in an irenical and ecumenical spirit, announce a common date for Pascha, or a common calculation for the date of Pascha from then on. Thus there will only be ONE calendar even though there will continue to be churches, like the ROC who will continue with the Julian calendar.

Yes, Russia's war of aggression on Ukraine has to do with the adoption of the new calendar. It is more than just "politics" as Western commentators are wont to say, but that is another issue.

The UGCC has been internally divided over the calendar issue for far too long. As our patriarch has said to all Ukrainian Catholics, "Listen to your Mother Church!"

My family and friends intend to - with or without the parish we dearly love.

I do not want to seem to be the perennial nay-sayer and there are pressing existential matters -- people are dying; we are fighting for our life -- but on this calendar issue (and others) the Churches need to embrace the inconvenient truth. That means they also must understand the issues. Are they understood?

How well informed are the voters? For the EP-WCC initiative for 2025, TOWARDS A COMMON DATE OF EASTER: REMAINING FAITHFUL TO NICAEA, Met. Job proposes that  [my emphasis]
"like" does not automatically equate with understanding.

The Revised Julian calendar [en.wikipedia.org] (RJC) presently, as a functional calendar, has no practical value or necessity. It is an example of over-compensated accuracy and precision. Consider a watch or clock: How often does the second hand (if it even has one) need to be consulted? Now imagine a clock in your kitchen that also counts the hundredth or thousandth second.

Even worse, the RJC becomes a diversion from the real issue, the Paschalion. Adopting the RJC with the Julian Pachalion is inviting criticism for reform, and liturgical confusion. Adopting the RJC is (until Feb. 28, 2800) by design just using the Gregorian calendar with a more acceptable (to Orthodox) designation.

Worth repeating, so I did.

I read Orthodox Catholic's last post with interest.

However, as I'm wrestling with the terminology as provided by ajk, my understanding of the post is that the parishioners were given 3 choices as to calendars that will set the dates of the fixed feasts but that the post omitted saying anything about the parishioners choices, if any, regarding movable feasts (Orthodox Catholic did not mention if any choices were given the parishioners as to Paschalion).

Orthodox Catholic: was that your intent, or do you understand some or all of "Gregorian", "Julian", "Revised Julian" to imply a particular Paschalion?

Bless, Reverend Father Deacon and Doctor!

I agree with you completely, of course, and wish you could be up here to deliver a lecture on this topic to the parish!

Failing that, is there a particular piece that you have written by way of explanatory notes that, with your permission, I could copy and distribute?

If you'd rather not get involved, that is perfectly understandable!

Alex

Dear Roman,

You obviously have a very disciplined and focused mind! I don't . . .

So with respect to the Paschalion, the Gregorian choice would involve what they call the "Western Pascha." The Reformed or New Julian calendar would involve what I will call the "Old calendar Pascha" and the same would hold true, of course, for the Julian calendar.

Our parishioners love to argue. One priest didn't like the questionnaire and the way it was formatted - and there wasn't really anything about it to like - and said so. There is truly a vocal group that is for the old calendar and "let the rest of the outside world do what it likes." There will be a parish-wide meeting to discuss the findings of the questionnaire and I hope the parish will accept the majority of what the respondents want. Otherwise I'm going elsewhere - period.

Do you know what you call a bishop who sleepwalks? a Roamin' Catholic . . .

I am involved and I'd welcome the give-and-take of an in-person group encounter; thank you for the "invite" and, but for the distance...

There are so many ways in which the calendar issue is approached and questioned that it's a presentation's pitfall to address at length and in detail a particular aspect that has little or no impact on the concerns of a particular person or group. I've been involved on this forum on this calendar issue since 2007 and that is my experience.

In June 2022 for the Orientale Lumen XXVI Conference on the theme of Nicaea and the Date of Pascha/Easter I gave a (virtual) presentation entitled The Church Calendar: Theology and Technology. The target 40-45 min. presentation became two 1 hour presentations (graciously allowed) -- I could not do minimal justice to the full range of material in anything less (As I said there, "God is in the details.").

As you have asked, I provide a link (below) to a draft paper that is condensed from my Powerpoint presentation(s) at that conference. I'd consider it a resource for a "facilitator" at a parish meeting or a primer or introduction for an in-depth study. Since it is a draft, and may be included in a proceedings, I ask that it not be copied for distribution at this time. A number of points not addressed in the paper are inferred through what are (presently) 18 questions or discussion topics. Criticisms and comments are welcome.

The pdf is too big to be attached to this post. It can be accessed here: The Church Calendar: Theology and Technology [academia.edu]. Another paper from the conference is also available from Fr. Christiaan Kappes (Academic Dean, Ss. Cyril and Methodius Byzantine Catholic Seminary): Universal Date for Easter (Pascha): Worthwhile Innovation in the Annals of Christianity? [academia.edu].

Bless Reverend Father Deacon and Doctor!

Thank you very much!!

I have some very good news in this regard. The voting appears to be overwhelmingly in favour of the new calendar! I will follow this. A blessed Holy Week and Pascha!

Alex

The issue would be the incompatibility of the Julian Paschalion teamed with the new calendar:

Deuteronomy 22:10 Thou shalt not plow with an ox and an ass together.

The plan is to keep the Julian Paschalion, so with Orthodox Catholic's blessing, please change subject line to "Revised Julian" (per OC's usage).
Thanks.

I am pleased to give my blessing!