I am looking for a Ruthenian setting of "Eis Polla Eti Despota!" Our bishop visited yesterday, and we had no music for this, so we started our service with a hymn, instead.

I bet John Vernoski, who puts out those weekly music supplements, has one, but I don't know how to reach him directly. In any case, I would be glad to locate ANY Ruthenian settings for possible use next time, and possibly in other parishes of the eparchy. We're probably not the only ones without this.

Jim, are you referring to the entire Ton Despotin or just the Eis polla, eti Despota? We use the setting of Fr. Mikhail Lysytsyn's Ton Despotin from Kyiv which is fairly simple for the entire Ton Despotin.

If it is just the "Eis polla eti Despota" part you can adapt "Eis polla eti, Despota" to a simple two or three note prostopinje chant such as that used at "Amen" at the beginning of Liturgy if you don't have any other setting available.

Diak, I take it you are referring to what would be called a Ukrainian setting here. What I am looking for would be more in line with eastern Slovakian chant, Byzantine Catholic as opposed to Ukrainian Catholic. A simple one-part setting is all we need.

A panahkida source would be helpful, too, while I'm at it. Currently, our panakhidas have no written music, and are performed from the collective memory. Oral musical traditions tend to evolve away from norms over time without notation, however. Notated Settings would help preserve continuity.

J Thur, I hope you have some ideas or sources. I'd be glad to buy.

Jim,

The Panachida and full funeral service are available with notes in "The Rite of Christian Burial" which you can get from Byzantine Seminary Press.


Sharon

Jim, for the 'Eis Polla Eti' alone, such as after the Gospel without the entire Ton Despotin, I was referring to using the two-note melody for the Ruthenian Prostopinje 'Amen' which is sung at the beginning of the Divine Liturgy after the 'Blessed is the Kingdom' by the priest. You would sing 'Eis polla eti' with the first note and 'Despota' with the second note.
We also tried it using the melody for the first 'Lord have mercy' at the Great Ektenia (you know, the one that starts lower) but we liked using the 'Amen' melody better.

We sang the Lysytsyn Kyivan 'Ton Despotin' for the entrance of Bishop John Kudrick when he visited this past summer and he gave us some very favorable comments. He also commented that when we sang the simpler 'Eis Polla Eti' later after the Gospel when he blessed with dikery/trikery that many parishes don't know what to do at that point and was happy to see the respect for the Bishop and hear someone singing.

XB!

I would be really curious to see a Ruthenian setting for "Ton Despotin" or just "Eis Polla." I asked someone about this some time back and it was called to my attention that in the Ruthenian books there is no apparent use of either phrase rubrically and there is no setting in Bokshai. The person who told me this said it was questionable whether singing either was "authenitic Ruthenian tradition."

I imagine that what the ACROD uses would suffice for your parish but that is just a guess. As Sharon pointed out, the "The OFfice of Christian Burial" is very complete and user friendly and I think is in print.

Tony

XA! XB! CiR!

My dad arranged a "Ton Despotin" in a prostopinije fashion several years ago... he used one of the Creed melodies, I believe. If I can find it, I'll scan and post it somewhere online.

Dave

There is no Prostopinije setting of Ton
Despotin i am aware of. This is because it is replaced by a hymn unique to Rusyn usage: "Voshel jesi Archiiereju." The melody is, i think, a tone 8 podoben (this is the model text). The text is four verses (as it appears in the Bokshaj/Malinich Irmologion). Father Joe has a post on this hymn somewhere around here.

Here is the link to the thread:


https://www.byzcath.org/bboard/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=001548#000003

Below is the link to the scan of a "prostopinije" based Ton Despotin.

Ton Despotin [htc.faithweb.com]

(My apologies in advance for the less than perfect quality of the scan.)

Thanks, Chtec, for the scan of "Ton Despotin". I'll pass it by our priest.

It isn't "used" in the Rusyn Greek Catholic Church because it has always been rendered in the Church Slavonic as "Mnohaja L'ita" along with the Bishop's entrance hymn " You have Entered O Noble Archpriest". While the Rusyn Orthodox Church in America (ACROGC) has a direct tie to Constantinople and are very Helenic-oriented so much that you hardly hear the Rusyn -Slavonic "Mnohaja L'ita" which seems odd!

Ung_Certez

This Slav of the Pittsburgh Metropolia would like to know:

Why is Church Slavonic now practically forbidden, yet Greek is now an official language of our "American" church?

In my home parish (that is about 80% Rusyns and their spouses) we didn't sing any Rusyn paraliturgical Paschal hymns this year, yet sang "Christos Anesti" many times.

XB!

It is curious that Slav Orthodox use Ton Despoting and Eis Polla in Greek while the Ruthenians apparently do not. The Ruthenians do however have the usage of the Bishop singing the Holy God (or the hymn that replaces it) the third time in Greek while other Slav Churches AFAIK do not.

What about the Ukrainians?

Tony

Don't be so sure about Ruthenians not using "Ton Despotin". When I mentioned it to our priest last week, he said we ought to have a setting of "Eis polla eti Despota" for use when the bishop comes. Looks more like another tradition may be about to be reclaimed in our parish.

I agree, to a point. The Ruthenian practice translated "Eis polla eti Despota" as "Na mnohaja l'ita Vladyko" and there is a great amount of wisdom to that. So many people in the non-Greek speaking Orthodox world know to sing "Eis polla" for a bishop, but have NO clue what it means. I know tons of people who think that it is "Russian"!

Now, I do have a copy of a 1906 Sbornik from Ungvar. In the Divine Liturgy, before "Vidichom svit istinnyj" where you normally find "Na mnohaja l'ita Vladyko" in Ruthenian books, it has (in Cyrillic) "Eis polla eti Despota" followed by "Na mnoha l'ita Vladyko". I am not sure why the Greek is present in this edition, but it is interesting to see that it was not totally unknown among "our people" (at least those who published the book!).

Now, I said this in the thread which Adam made reference to and I will say it again: "Vos^el Jesi" and "Ton Despotin" are two TOTALLY different things and serve different purposes. "Vos^el jesi" is an entrance hymn for a bishop. "Ton Despotin" is not an entrance hymn; it is sung as an acclamation asking God to bless the hierarch with many years. Normally it is sung as the bishop blesses the people. So, to say "We sing Vos^el jesi and you sing Ton Despotin" would be innacurate. The Ruthenians may use a vernacular version of asking God to bless the bishop with many years, but it is not "Vos^el jesi."

Tony does make a good point about preserving the Greek Trisagion but not having "Ton Despotin." I wonder when the multiple "Eis polla"s and "Ton Despotin"s were included in the other Byzantine usages. Maybe Fr. Mark can enlighten us to the Old Rite practice?

All these questions lead us to the ultimate question of the origins of the unique Ruthenian pontifical celebration of the Divine Liturgy. Maybe one day we'll find that old dusty manuscript that answers all our questions...

Dave

If we are talking about usage based solely on tradition, Vosel' Jesi is a relative latecomer based on the Latin entrance of the bishop and while it is a nice hymn it likely did not exist much before the 16-17 century. Ton Despotin on the other hand is descended from the usage of the Great Church (Hagia Sophia).

There are several settings of Ton Despotin that can be easily obtained. There are not too many settings of Ton Despotin known amongst the Ruthenians because it was basically lost when the Vosel' Jesi replaced it.

Someone asked about the Ukrainains, they continue to use Ton Despotin for the entrance of the bishop as it is in the Archieraticon but it has fallen into disuse in many places. Mnohaja Lita is indicated for the responses with the blessing of the trikery/dikery, and Eis Polla Eti Despota (in Cyrillic, interestingly enough) is specifically indicated to be taken after the Gospel. None of these have been translated into English at least for common parish usage.

I don't understand the very American notion that every liturgical hymn needs to be translated into English. I can sympathize with the need for vernacular liturgical translations. But there is nothing wrong with keeping a few in the mother language to remind us of our ecclesiastical patrimony, especially for hierarchal services. Ton Despotin, Eis Polla Eti, and Mnohaja Lita are some examples.

So it seems perhaps some Greek vestiges of the Eis Polla were present at least in the service books at the turn of the last century. My 1903 Izbornik from Ungvar is similar to that described above.

Looking at the general extant Ruthenian pontifical pew books from the Kocisko-Dolinay eras I have not seen one pew book that had Eis Polla Eti in Greek. Most of these did have Mnohaja Lita and Vosel' Jesi, but no Ton Despotin or even Eis Polla Eti after the Gospel.

XB!

I can't speak about the Pittsburgh Metropolia, but I have noticed a certain phobia among some to using small amounts of Slavonic. They think that one line or one hymn or something immediately means we're going back to the days of complete Slavonic liturgies. I am all for the vernacular but I am also totally in favor of including pieces in other languages, especially "ancestral languages," most especially when people already know certain pieces. What's wrong with a little Slavonic here and there? As per this thread, if our people retained "Agios o Theos" for the bishop, why can't we retain a "Svjatyj Boz^e" or the like? I even look at those outside the Byzantine world: the Taize Community in France is over there singing Bohorodice D'ivo and Slava Tebi Boz^e, so why can't we sing them in our churches? School concerts make kids learn songs in French and Hebrew and German, but God forbid we try and learn something in Slavonic!

This was a hot-button issue for me recently. A few times during the Great Fast, when I would lead the singing, I sandwiched a "Preterpivyj" between two "Having suffered"s. I only did this when there was a certain demographic for the service (mainly older people who grew up with Slavonic in general and this hymn in particular). I had several of the older generation sing along and come to me after and thank me profusely. They found it beautiful and touching. "I haven't heard that in years!" was a common line. Yet my priest told me after Lent that he didn't like me singing it in Slavonic... not "American" or something. But I ask, "What is American?" Does America mean losing one's heritage, culture and history? Does the dream of an "American Church" mean losing all of one's past?

This was a rather haphazard post/rant and I apologize in advance. This is just an issue that has been bugging me since the Great Fast and I had to let it out.

S'Bohom!

Dave

Not only Preterpivj, but anyone that has heard one of the beautiful Znamenny, Kyivan or Prostopinje settings of Da Ispravitsja (Let My Prayer Ascend) at the Presanctified Liturgy knows how moving and beautiful it is in Slavonic. Why not sing it once in Slavonic at Presanctified? I think everyone would live through it.

Dave,

XB!

In that Izbornik is that liturgy specified as Hierarchical? As you note Ruthenian books usually have "Na mnohaja l'ita Vladyko" for all liturgies in Slavonic and the last "official" prew books out of Pittsburgh that are bi-lingual reflect that. It is usually not present in English.

Tony

BB!

Hi Tony,

I should have been more specific. It is not an Hierarchical Liturgy, just (for lack of a better term) a "regular" one. However, the fact that they included "Eis polla" before the typical Ruthenian inclusion of "Na mnohaja" is interesting. It is also interesting in this edition that "Da ispolnjatsja" is rendered in the Russian manner ("sobl'udi nas Boz^e") instead of the Ruthenian manner ("utverdi nas Boz^e"). I have never checked the other usual "divergent texts" though... maybe I'll do that tonight. It's so nice to be done with homework for the semester so I can waste my time with all this stuff.

Dave

If anyone had trouble with the link to "Ton Despotin" please go to the following page:

http://htc.faithweb.com/ton.html

My 1903 Izbornik specifically states (my translation into English) in the notes "hierarchal liturgy only" for those parts such as "Mnohaja Lita" at the blessing by the bishop with dikery and trikery and the indication of "Eis polla eti Despota" after the Gospel.

It's interesting how "Eis polla eti" fell out of use and liturgical texts (specifically pew books) in the Ruthenian usage after the early 20th century when they were clearly present earlier, but stayed in some others such as in the Ukrainian pew versions of the hierarchal Divine Liturgy. Yet another thesis topic for some armchair liturgists...

Just what would people regard as the best translation of "Eis Polla Eti Despota" in conventional English (as opposed to Elizabethan)?

1. I am unaware of a Ruthenian setting for "Eis Polla Eti Despota". When I have sung it in Greek I have used the very simple setting used by the Greeks.

2. In English, I have used the translation �Many years, O Master� in a simple setting. This past week we sung it at a hierarchical Divine Liturgy in the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh. In the key of D-Maj the words �Many years� were sung on a �D�, �O� on a �F#�, �Ma-� on an E and �ster� back on a �D�. Then, after a slight pause into �Christ is Risen� (D-E-F#-E, etc.). [According to the Ruthenian custom during Pascha the "Many years, O Master" is followed by the singing of "Christ is Risen".]

Jim, I have also not sung Ton Despotin or Eis Polla Eti in anything except Greek. I sing "Eis polla eti Despota" after the Gospel in simple Greek or Kyivan chant.

"Ton Despotin" has many settings. I have only sung the Greek, Melkite and Kyivan/Lysytsyn settings, three out of many, and find the Melkite and Greek the simplest and the Lysytsyn the nicest. I have heard but not sung a very nice Serbian setting of Ton Despotin also.

If you are interested in music, you can find one fairly common and simple setting of Ton Despotin from St. Michael's (ACROD) website at http://www.saintmichaels.info/music/pdfs/Ton-Despotin.pdf This site also has three different settings of Eis Polla Eti at http://www.saintmichaels.info/music/pdfs/Eis-Polla-1-2-3.pdf

I usually use the #3 setting and find it to be the simplest to teach for congregational singing but all three are quite simple.

The St. Michael's ACROD site also has a Bortnyansky setting of Eis Polla Eti Despota for trio at http://www.saintmichaels.info/music/pdfs/Eis-Polla-Eti-Trio.pdf

You can find another setting of both Ton Despotin and Eis Polla Eti Despota in Greek chant in modern notation in pdf format at http://sgpm.goarch.org/e_services/Music/MW-Episcopal.pdf If you want to get fancy and sing it with an eison this music will work for the eison on G for the Eis Polla Eti.

Alexei Lvov has a very nice choral setting of Ton Despotin as well.

Thanks for all the websites. The Binghamton versions of Eis Polla Eti Dhespota are the ones used here by the OCA, I believe.

Does anyone happen to know a web location to download a simple setting of "You have entered, O noble Archpriest"?

I'd also like to locate a copy of "Na mnohaja l'ita Vladyko".

Which one? The one in Slavonic to be sung after Communion (after �Save your people, O Lord�.�) can be found in the Blue Boksaj. I have an English setting and I can e-mail you pdf copy of it (it is described in my post above).

At the risk of sounding like Hritzko, I am about to go nutso myself. Jim writes: "Byzantine Catholic as opposed to Ukrainian Catholic". This is beyond the beyond. "Byzantine Catholic" is a higher set, to use a technical term GCSSSCM, the Pittsburgh Metropolia, and whatever else have no exclusive rights to that name.
"Voshel jesi archijereju" is nothing more nor less than a Church-Slavonic paraphrase of "Ecce Sacerdos Magnus".
Whoever wrote that the Carpatho-Russian Diocese (which is not now and never has been named the "Rusyn Orthodox Church", of all things) no longer uses the Mnohaja L'ita. I beg your pardon? They most certainly sing Mnohaja L'ita. They also sing Ton Despotin, and they can tell the difference.
Would anyone care to produce an authenticated Rusyn edition of the Archieraticon? The present Ruthenian Recension edition from Rome certainly includes Ton Despotin and Eis polla eti, Despota. But if someone can point to a published Archieraticon from Uzhhorod, or even a carefully-dated manuscript Archieraticon from Uzhhorod, I shall most gratefully read it with keen interest.
All is not lost - I think my liquor cabinet contains the makings of consolation. Maybe I'll just get blotto and not bother to go nutso.
Incognitus

For Incognitus' sake, I should say that I came back to this thread from over a year ago in order to find additional settings for consideration for use when our bishop comes to visit. A year ago we had nothing to offer His Grace except a generic hymn from the back of our Liturgy book. There IS special music to be sung in honor of the bishop's office. If we do "Eis polla eti, Despota", it will be from one of the simple settings suggested about a year ago, since no others have been put forward. The other hymns mentioned are at least worth looking at, assuming they have had a place in Ruthenian services in the past. A special handout might be produced for the occasion, guiding everyone to where they are to be sung in the service itself.

And as for Byzantine Catholic as opposed to Ukrainian Catholic- well, I am concerned with settings that would be acceptable for use under Metropolitan Basil and Bishop William, our local bishop. Hope that helps some.

Incognitus,

You are correct that the term �Byzantine Catholic� is a �higher term�, just like the term �Greek Catholic�.

It is curious how people never got upset when � a generation ago - both the Ruthenian and Ukrainian parishes simply used the title �St. X Greek Catholic Church� (without any ethnic qualifiers) but now begin caterwauling whenever the Ruthenians continue the custom with the newer but equivalent term �Byzantine Catholic�.

I am curious, do you know the history of the switch from the term �Greek Catholic� to �Ukrainian Catholic� by the Ukrainian Byzantine/Greek Catholic Church?

But maybe we should start a new thread for such a discussion?

But since you have your liquor cabinet open might I invite the Forum members to stop by your place for an adult beverage? I�ll send along some potato chips and cashews.

Admin

Dear Administrator,
Forum members are always welcome to stop by and enjoy the adult beverages - we shall appreciate your contributions to the festivities, but most of all your presence at them.
Now to your question - I don't quite report this of my own knowledge, since I wasn't there, but it would appear that the hierarchy of the Philadelphia Metropolia and the Winnipeg Metropolia held a joint meeting in the late fifties and took a decision to abandon "Greek Catholic" in favor of "Ukrainian Catholic". The motive was simple: "Greek Catholic" could and did cause trouble in the civil courts. Nevertheless, this decision was not unopposed; FAther Victor Pospishil in particular advised against it most strenuously. Now we have the ironic situation that "Greek-Catholic" is the legal name of this Church in Ukraine (where "Ukrainian CAtholic" is a euphemism for "Roman Catholic" of a certain background which I shall not mention!), so, on the one hand, some Ukrainian-Americans are trying to convince the Church in Ukraine to drop the "Greek-Catholic" (which will not happen in the immediate future) and adopt the name "Ukrainian CAtholic" (which is impossible, since the RCs already have registered that name for themselves), and others are busily restoring the use of "Greek Catholic" on the correct premise that it is ridiciulous for the tail to attempt to wag the dog.
I may be mistaken, but I'm under the impression that Bishop Daniel had the same motive for abandoning "Greek-Catholic"; the name had proved to be a complicating factor when litigation loomed.
Incognitus
P.S. do you know of any salt-free popcorn for microwave ovens?

P.S. "Byzantine Catholic" is not inaccurate, but it triggers a negative emotional reaction amongst those who are aware of what went on in Eastern Poland in the twenties and thirties of the last century.
My own preference for Greek-Catholic is that it is the common name for everybody who is in union with Rome and uses the Byzantine Liturgy. Besides, it's a historic term while "Byzantine" as a religious designation is a neologism.
This should not be taken as a disavowal of Byzas the Fisherman from Megara, who founded the place, nor of the Queen City which resulted, and which still bears his name when the city is mentioned in adjectival form (e.g. Constantinople is the great center of Byzantine art and architecture). Byzas knew what he was doing, and did it well. Memory Eternal!

["Istanbul", in case anybody is wondering is nothing more than a Greek phrase - Eis tin polin" spelled in Turkish phonetics. "Eis tin polin" means "to the city", and works in the same way as the same phrase is often used in, for example, New Jersey and Connecticut by people who are going into New York.]

Hey, where's the directions? Is there any left, or did you guys drink it all?

Dearest Incongnitus,

I knew that, but didn't know that many others did...then again, you are an incredible wealth of knowledge, and if anyone would know that here, it would have to be you!

As a New Yorker, I will double my compliment, by saying, 'great analogy'...we do say, "I am going into the city"!!!

Now, to test your incredible mind...what do the Fathers of the Church say about compliments?

With much love in Christ,
Alice

BTW, I have two or three Serbian settings for the Ton Despotin, etc. If anyone is interested I can email a scan.

The Fathers of the Church tell us to avoid compliments, seeking (at most) only a reward from the Lord in the age to come. It is not without wisdom that several cultures of the Orient do not permit people to accept compliments (in Chinese one says "tai kechi, tai kechi" and turns a bit away from the person offering the compliment - who in turn presses the compliment a bit more before modestly refraining from further inducement).
That said, thank you very kindly!
Incognitus

I prefer almonds, but am much less picky about the liquor. The Fathers do, however, often take great effort to extol hospitality.

I am quite comfortable with "Greek Catholic", or as Fr. Andriy Chirovsky sometimes uses, "Greco-Catholic". I would point out that not only the UGCC, but all of the smaller sui iuris jurisdictions directly dependent on Rome such as Presov and Uzhorod also use "Greek Catholic".

As far as I can tell there never was any mutual agreement/treaty between Metropolitan Constantine and the PM regarding the use of the term "Byzantine", either verbal or written. The use of that term appears to be solely attributable to the PM.

It seems rather ludicrous that one jurisdiction would presume to lay claim to a term that embraces so many things (especially historically) that it is currently not. If they brought back the Emperor, well, perhaps I'll take another look at it.

My personal favorite setting of "Ton Despotin" is the early 1900s setting of Archpriest M. Lisytsyn that was published at the Pecherska Lavra before the Revolution. I don't have the music, but I've sung it over the phone to a few people to learn and am always willing to do that.

Is there really so little music to honor the office of bishop available?

There is, of course, a big difference between honoring someone personally and honoring the position they hold. Maybe the lack of music stems from some perception that the honor is personal. Then again, maybe I'm just looking for answers in the wrong place?

Dear Alice,
There is also the form "en ti poli", which people even in Athens spontaneously use even nowadays to refer to something or other located in Constantinople.

Dear Everybody,
You all missed a great party - the liquor caibnet has barely survived. At least one of our posters made it (he's still here and sleeping it off). Unfortunately the potato chips and cashews never arrived, so we had to make do with pistachios. But that's ok; I like pistachios.

Incognitus

Too bad the party wasn't closer. I think I'm 4 days' drive from where it was.

Dearest Incognitus,

Thank you, AS ALWAYS, for the interesting information and the answer to my question on the Church Fathers!

With love in Christ,
Alice

Dear Alice,
Evloyia Kyriou! The pleasure is entirely mine.
Incognitus

Well, I have successfully located a copy of "You Have Entered, O Noble Archpriest" in English. It is not easily sung by a group without preparation, and is written somewhat peculiarly- key signature of E-flat Major, but actually sung in A-flat Major. It includes an octave leap which is not a friendly thing to have for unison singing, but is full of late 19th century-style nobility. I am not so sure it would go well for a single service, because of its difficulty. Perhaps if the words were set to a frequently used tone. I'll have to look into that.

Incognitus has already pointed out that "Voshel jesi archijereju" is nothing less than a Church-Slavonic paraphrase of "Ecce Sacerdos Magnus". Since it is a latinization pure and simply I recommend allowing it to fall into disuse (unless, of course, your bishop asks you to sing it).

The more authentic custom among Slavs is to sing �It is truly proper� / �Dostonjo Jest�. Most people know it in English and Slavonic and will sing it with gusto. Singing it during the entrance of the hierarch helps prime the singing pump and sets a qualitative baseline for the singing during the Hierarchical Divine Liturgy itself. Other choices include a Marian Hymn that is a particular favorite of the parish or a pslam set to Kontakion 8 (I have a lot in my collection).

Jim:

If you can PM me your e-mail address I can send a 4-part setting of the prostopinije melody for Voshel Jesi that appears in the Sokol Blue Book.

We sang this maybe 25 years ago, when Bishop Steven visited my home parish. Before the liturgy my grandfather, then about 90, took me aside and asked if we knew to sing that hymn - and we proceeded to chant it together.

Actually the more authentic custom for a hierarchal procession is to sing "Ton Despotin". This is the practice of the Great Church which fell out of use post-Zamosc and was replaced with various other hymns, such as "Vosel jesi".

The Melkites, Ukrainians and Romanians have restored this in hierarchal celebrations in some places(or have never lost it, as the case may be). Nothing wrong with just doing it "the way we used to".

The settings I have will need to be reviewed by my parish priest prior to use. What our bishop would like to have used will likely need to be factored in. However, I think it is important to be prepared with as many alternatives as possible. Once I know how far we can go with special music for His Grace's visit, I shouldn't have to revisit the issue again, until there is a new bishop. That way I'll know I did my best, even if we wind up using none of them.

At present , I have settings of "Eis Polla Eti Despota" from Binghamton, which I downloaded; "You Have Entered, O Noble Archpriest" from a printed English collection from back in the 70s, and one I put together using one of the resurrection tones; some Slavonic and English settings from our administrator; and a single line setting of Ton Despotin.

I'm hoping at least one or more will be ok for use.

"Ton despotin" as a processional? By "Great Church" I'm assuming you mean Constantinople; I've served at two Greek hierarchical Liturgies and I don't recall it being used when the bishop entered the church (it was sung v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y as he said his kairos, however). Also, I don't recall seeing it as the entrance hymn in the "Archieratikon" from Rome (as found online). If memory serves me right, it appoints "Blessed be the name of the Lord" or "It is truly meet."

Dave
Who Thinks "Voshel Jesi" Is Fun To Sing

Just waxing romantic, Dave...bring back the Emperor.

You are right that this is not "officially" in the Rome Archieraticon. Why, I don't know, as it has certainly been used in Rome for Byzantine hierarchal liturgies and with some Greek Catholics you can certainly find it in use. Some things such as specific processional hymns have certainly varied in use over the last 500 or so years.

This is one of those curious practices from Constantinople that was in some places dropped by the Greeks (they do it on Athos) but kept by some Slavs and the Melkites. Worthy of yet another research and dissertation topic for some young industrious liturgy student.

What do we want? A Christian Byzantine Emperor!

When do we want him? Thirteen days from now!

Somewhere in my collection of oddments I have a recording of a male choir in Greece singing the Polychronion for the Emperor. It's fun. A bunch of us once sang it in front of the Royal Palace in Athens, long after the fall of the monarchy.
Incognitus

Well, I didn't say it was not in the Archieratikon from Rome. I only said it wasn't used as the entrance hymn. It is placed after the Entrance Prayers, as can be seen here:

http://www.patronagechurch.com/Archieratikon/18-19.htm

The book also gives the provision to sing "Mnohaja Lita" as an alternative to this, which I believe is quite common among the Ruthenians.

How do the Melkites and others use it as the entrance hymn? Can you give a basic run-down of how it fits together with the other liturgical elements? I'm a bit curious.

A few months back I made an English rendition of "Ton despotin" to a Rusyn popular melody "Zhivite l'udije." I heard the melody on a CD that was graciously given to me by a friend, and it just wouldn't get out of my head. I don't think it will really be used (at least not until I am long dead), but it was fun to arrange and sing in the shower.

Dave

Diak,

Actually, at Archbishop Cyril's enthronement, we used "It is truly meet" as the entrance hymn for the procession.

Many years,

Neil

"Greek Catholic" as an official designation is an invention of the Hapsburgs. When they acquired a big Rusyn/Ukrainian population by the partitions of Poland, they coined this to give equal status with the Roman Catholics. In Galicia, the government was Austrian and the Latins who thought it disgraceful that all those illiterate peasants spoke Rusyn and had services that were not in Latin and not at all the same as what the Pope did in Rome, those guys were Polish bishops. The Austrians distrusted them a good deal more than they did the illiterate peasants, so they supported the latter against the Latin bishops--even the German-speaking Austrian bishops did not want to encourage Polish nationalism.

In the Kingdom of Hungary, the government was Hungarian (never mind that the king happened to be the same Hapsburg who sat on the the throne of Austria), and the bishops who didn't want to put up with the unwashed Rusyns were--Hungarian. So on that side of the mountains the government supported the Latin bishops against the Rusyns. So it came about that the Galicians were better off than the brethren in Carpathian Rus'. But the designation "Greek Catholic" applied to both.

"Byzantine Catholic" of course means "Byzantine Rite," but in that sense it would apply to the Melkites and the Italo-Albanians just as much. Nevertheless, it has pretty well supplanted "Greek Catholic" (at least in the US) among Carpatho-Rusyns, as "Ukrainian Catholic" has replace "Greek Catholic" among Galicians. "Byzantine Catholic" becomes a problem, or at least a nuisance, when one encounters collections of "Byzantine Chant" that turn out to be Prostopinije.

Stephen,

On the use of Greek in Rusyn churches: the older manuscript Irmologia frequently contain some Greek pieces, not only Eis polla but Holy God (Agios o Theos) and the Cherubic Hymn (I ta kheruvim), with the text written in Cyrillic letters. I doubt that these were much used in village churches, but they must have been heard in cathedrals and monasteries. So this is quite traditional, and not an innovation resulting from ACROD's connection with the Ecumenical Patriarch. These items do not overlap wiht the Russian "Grecheskii Rospev," which, despite what 20th-century music historians claimed, were not borrowed (as the Kievskii Rospev and Bolgarskii Rospev were) from the Ukrainian and Bielarus'ian churches, but were learned by the Muscovites directly from visiting Greek psalts, as the Russians have traditionally said). The fine anthology from old irmologia recently published by Oleksandra Calaj-Jakymenko does, it is true, contain "Da ispravitsja" in the Grecheskii Rospev, but the irmologion she took it from was written by a Ukrainian in Moscow, part of the brain-drain of those days, and he must have learned it there. The Nikonian text indicates that he did not take it from the Irmologion traditon.

Stephen

Have asked for this topic to be moved to Kliros, in case anyone has additional information on settings to add.