I'm sure the bishops read this forum. Are we to assume that they just ignore what they read here? That they will do as they see fit, and could care less what the faithful think?
Are they shocked by the conversions to Orthodoxy or don't they care?
The bishops can make the right decisions if they want to. I think the prevailing attitude is to be Catholic first, and Eastern second.
You are imagining Metropolitan Basil in his jammies with a mug of cocoa anxiously sitting down to log in and read up on the pontifications from the online peanut gallery maybe? I am not.
Shocked by which conversions to Orthodoxy? There have always been a stream into and out of the Greek Catholic Church for any number of reasons. You may have gone to "where we still say mankind" and God bless you and keep you, but just because you are in the convert boat and everyone in the boat is, well, in the same boat... Don't go thinking that it has been mass abandonment left and right.
But if you are thinking the abandonment of our church on the part of clergy who have married up and 'doxed... Pragmatically speaking, I am not certain it makes a big difference. No one had to be ordained, no one had to start dating after ordination. The day the first married Greek Catholic priests gets a divorce, remarries, and still manages to convert there will be a whole lot of people smacking their own forehead saying "Oh, so that's how that works."
Catholic frist, Eastern second... Well, sounds about right. The unia exists for a reason above and beyond externals of discipline. Sorry if it was difficult for you. I know you feel differently. But I give you credit for having the integrity to move on. It seems like bigger issues would be at play than married priests or RDLs before such a move.
Have any married men here approached these eparchs with a view to priestly ordination? Do we know for certain that deacons and diaconal candidates at this time who are married are not or will not be considered for priestly ordination in the future?
My aunt tells me that a married priesthood for one fella is out of the question. I shared a discussion with someone who is familiar with Catholic canon law and he states that there are other requirements necessary for priestly ordination thta their current training programs do not fulfill. I can't imagine what that would be.
Ed, my aunt tells me they can. My canon lawyer does too.
I can't really respond to what "this person said" just accepting the veracity and merit with no other detail here. So I don't know what to tell you.
But really that does not answer my questions: Have any married men here approached these eparchs with a view to priestly ordination? Do we know for certain that deacons and diaconal candidates at this time who are married are not or will not be considered for priestly ordination in the future?
Why is everyone so quick to assume (even though they are not privy to the mind of our hierarchs) that they have no plans or goals in this area?
Lack of action? You will know them by their deeds (or lack thereof).
We are ordaining married men as suitable candidates present themselves. I don't know what action you want.
Again, anyone here more recently than 12 years ago presented themselves to one of our hierarchs for consideration? Anyone?
Our bishops get beat up left and right and up and down in this forum, when most of us don't have the first clue what they are facing, and what their plans are.
What are they facing? What is the plan?
Does anyone else want to field this one?
Ed, do you have good clear solid ideas about what they face? about what it takes to run eparchies spanning over states? About what it takes to set up a formation program? About what it takes to manage blends of ethnic groups, immigrants, converts, Latins, in parishes from the inner cities to the suburbs? About what it takes to set up a seminary program for married students? About what it would take to screen not one but TWO candidates for the priesthood? That is right, how do they evaluate the home lives and domestic situations? Maybe three men in Toledo would be GREAT and the wives are for it, but the kids are young and they can't really move around... but would be happy to serve in Toledo... if they can do a correspondance course, because they can't afford to pack up, go to seminary, enroll the kids in the local Catholic gradeschool... Or maybe we tell fathers and husbands to leave their families behind for the time? Maybe the wife should go to work, or take on a second job.
It really just seems so easy to you? It really seems like no action from your outsider perspective because it is not the action you feel it should be? Its not the pace you like?
It seems that the bishops you claim might be still in planning will wait until Rome makes revisions to that plan. of course, with Rome's permission.
Might I suggest thta your clergy vote for their bishops in the future instead of having them handpicked by Rome? I think I detect a connection here.
I don't. But let me try...
...putting the imagination into overdrive here and trying my darnedest to picture Vaticanistas
(let alone the Holy Father) over in Rome losing sleep about the odd chance some married guys in the US might be ordained like, you know, the other 100+ pastoral provision priests and the 16,600+ deacons of the Latin Church...
In my imagination this low level prelate is up all night talking to his teddy bear (which he named Aloysius because he is a Brideshead Revisited
fan also) saying "Oh-a-no, what we gonna do? Those-a Greek-a Catholics are-a gonna ordain 'emselves uppa some married-a men! Mamma mia!!"
(OK, I admit it, in my imagination this guy is Father Guido Sarducci
from SNL because it seems like he should be a bishop by now...)
Let's get back to reality. Rome is not that monolithic, the Latin hierarchs - most of whom west of the Mississip'/south of the Mason-Dixon have no Greek Catholic presense in thier diocese really probably don't care (plus they have their own 16K married deacons to worry about). (I would wager 2 out of 3 of them don't give a whole lot of thought to the fact we are even around except when noticing the guys with the "cool hats who never have much to say at the USCCB meetings when we are chatting about Roman things")
And what makes us so certain that up until a few years ago, prebyteral voting for bishops would have availed us married priests sooner?
But if this is the perception of the nephew of a Greek Catholic dissatisfied at the direction and actions of a church to which he is not a member or affiliated with otherwise... well so be it. I doubt I can convince you.
Really Ed, after the great "Immaculate Conception" thread of last month I am not sure we can communicate - you have a very clear idea of what our church should be and how we should act. (Seems like a lot of people on here who aren't members do, so you are in good company.) But I can't help but wonder if your relentless criticism of us, of our practice and unia doesn't stem for your general apparent distaste for Rome, and what seems like your annoyance with our relationship to Rome.
"If a overseer/bishop cannot manage his own household ..."
Honestly, that just sounds glib.
But thank you for your concearn about our household, but I don't believe our bishops can't manage them.