Is the french kiss allowed between daters before the marriage?

First of all, seek advice of this sort from a priest whom you trust. Now, for my thoughts: this sort of physically intimate contact between parties who are engaged to be married may not necessarily be sinful; however, it could possibly lead to behaviors that are sinful outside of marriage. So, I would advise against it. However, I return to what I first stated: seek advice from a priest whom you trust.

In Christ,

Ryan

My advice is to ask your spiritual father, Philippe. There are some souls who still believe that your first kiss should be on your Wedding Day. But I have been a priest for 22 years, and have been more engaged in convincing single Christians to fight the 'no fornication before Marriage battle,' rather than fighting the 'no kissing before Marriage battle.' However, there is little doubt that if you win the latter struggle, you won't face the first.

Fr David Straut

Just a funny little story to show us how much times have changed in the last 150 years...

When my great-great-great-grandparents wed, they were on the way back in the carriage from their wedding. My great-grandfather asked his new bride for a kiss on the cheek in exchange for a peppermint he had in his pocket. She acquiesced, lucky him. And this after the marriage! LOL. I've always found that kind of naively adorable.

Alexis

P.S. In case anyone wonders where I get a lot of these stories about my distant ancestors, the county in which I live is named for my great-grandmother's family, who've been present here since the early 1800s. We have a large history book of the county in our possession with lots of these little stories about individuals in the county's history, many of whom are part of my family tree.

Alexis, u're learning with Fr. Serge to be comic in the topics!

Thank you all for the answers. My spiritual father had already advised me about.

I seem to remember a story about french fries being renamed freedom fries...

perhaps you might call it freedoom kissing instead of french kissing?

I will offer my own take on it...

First of all, kudos to you as a man and a brother for asking the question. I know some men who could not care less about how they treat their beloved before marriage. That you are asking is a great sign that you are a true man who is concerned for how he should reverently treat a woman, especially one he possibly intends to marry.

I would see kissing done in moderation to be fine, especially between those who are engaged to be married.

So called "French Kissing" is meant to emulate the bodily union of the marriage act, and is in fact a direct prelude to that act. Its purpose is really arousal, and so I would say that to engage in an act that:

a. emulates what can and should only be done between those who are bound together in the Holy Mystery of Crowning (matrimony)

and...

b. acts as a prelude to that act in a more direct and immediate way than say a kiss on the cheek

should be avoided to preserve each other's chastity before God and out of mutual respect for each other. To do otherwise I think would set you both up for frustration and would be nothing short of an abuse of what is an integral part of the beautiful union reserved for the wedding night. In that regard, I would see it as a serious matter, especially for the man of God.

My two cents!

Fr. Deacon Daniel

Not that either of them needs any affirmation from me, but I will add that I believe that Fr. David and Fr. Deacon Daniel have offered very wise counsel.

Ryan

French kissing, intimate hugs and the like often lead to intense feelings that seek expression in sex. In fact, it is not out of the ordinary for a couple to want to engage "only" in French kissing, and they end up going all the way in bed.

AP
A terrible sinner who knows what it's like... and has not stopped asking for God's forgiveness.

First, I want to commend our young friend for wanting to please the Lord. At his age, I was more interested in doing everything that he is trying to avoid and, unfortunately, I succeeded (mea maxima culpa!) In fact, when I go "back home" there are certain women that I'm nervous to be around, especially since my wife is with me.

Second, our clergy here have already given great advice and they need no addition from me.

In our youth, our priest forewarned that "kissing is the upper preparation for the lower invasion!"

Amado

It would be interesting to find instructions on this from the Church fathers, scholastics, Protestant reformers, confessors, etc. Does anyone know of a good book or article that has been written on this subject? It seems to me that this question of what is allowable between non-married persons would make a great dissertation topic.

Joe

Then again, St Paul encourages us to greet one another with a holy kiss.
Stephanos I

Emphasis on "holy." Like the distance between the rich man and the poor man, Lazarus, I think there's a vast gulf between this one and the one questioned above. The kiss preserved in liturgical practice and which some Europeans used to use culturally--the double or triple kiss on both cheeks--may be the what St. Paul is speaking about.

With part of Father Stephanos' text deleted, my chuckle makes absolutely no sense...

Could someone delete my "LOL" post as well? Thank you.

I would say that one needs to discuss this with their priest, but... at the risk of being stoned here I will say that while it is important for us to be chaste and it is important for us to keep the commandments and work towards Theosis we must not make ourselves so uptight that we are afraid to live.

I would say that deep kissing is ok for two engaged people, or even for adults who are dating seriously.

Just my 2 cents.

/Borislav gets ready to be slapped down.

Done.

BOB
Moderator

Up to the mid-20th century this question probably would not have come up because people were so often put together in "arranged marriages" where one may not have met one's spouse until the day of the wedding or some short time before. So this issue would have been a non-issue. (One of my wife's aunts used to tell a funny story about being chased around the bedroom on the first three night of her wedding because she didn't know what was supposed to go on and she was afraid. The third night he tripped her and she discovered that things weren't so bad. LOL)

The French Kiss is meant, as noted above, to cause arousal in both parties so it's fire.

BOB