On the Shroud thread, Alex remarked that the Shroud image reveals the nail wounds to be in the wrists and ankles. This is supposedly the only way the weight of a human body could remain on an exalted cross.

If that is the case, what about St Francis and Padre Pio? Are they fakes. From what I gather, their stigmata occured in the palms. If Jesus was crucified through the wrists, why would he give Francis and Pio wounds in the palms?

I'm sure somebody's thought of this!

love in Christ,
Marshall

Marshall,

It's been cussed and discussed here & there for centuries. The most rational explanation that I've heard is that the stigmata of the true mystics (Padre Pio and St. Francis, e.g.) correspond to the wounds as illustrated in Catholic religious art, i.e. the wounds with which they AND their contemporaries were familiar. (If the Blessed Mother was courteous enough to speak to Juan Diego in Nahuatl, and to St. Bernadette in her dialect, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to assume that the good Lord wouldn't make folks puzzle over why a wound was in the wrist when all the statues & pictures clearly showed them in the Lord's hands.)

A related factoid - illustrations & statues usually show the palm side of the crucified Lord's hands. The Shroud shows the back of the hand/wrist. I don't remember which book it was, but some pathologist looking at this very issue, found plausibility to the theory that nails could indeed enter the body at the base of the palm, and exit at the wrist.

I don't have aproblem with it - the Church has judged the mystics you mention to be genuine, and it's certainly nothing that I'd lose sleep over.

How are things going toward your baby's arrival?

Best,

Sharon

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Dear Marshall,

Yes, Sharon is right.

The Romans knew there was an empty spot in the middle of the wrist at the base of the palm and it was in there that they drove the nail.

The executioner would "feel" with his thumb for the soft spot, put the nail over it and down came the hammer.

I once did a paper on crucifixion . . .

The nails in the feet actually went through the ankles, again not breaking through bones, or else nails were driven in side-ways on the sides of the upward beam.

An archaeologist working in Israel recently discovered a cemetery filled with the bones of Jews crucified at the time of the rebellion of 70 A.D.

He took a bunch of foot bones and placed them one on top of the other and could then take a spike and thread it right through the spot where they had been nailed to crosses.

(I hope no one's having lunch and reading this at the same time).

Sharon is also right (Jewish Mothers always are! ) that the Stigmata and devotion to the imagery in iconography presented are connected.

For example, Stigmatists are non-existent in the Eastern Churches (save for those few in the Ukrainian CAtholic Church, but we're Latinized you know ).

Devotion to the Suffering Christ on the Cross, meditating on Him in His writhing Agony is not characteristic of Eastern devotion.

Alex

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

Thanks a lot Alex and Sharon.

Our son is doing well and is due June 23. Please say a prayer for him and my wife.

Also please pray for my friends Jim and Trac. They just lost their new-born daughter due to complications with her lungs. Please pray for her repose.

yours in Christ,
Marshall

Alex,

There was rumor of a Romanian Greek Catholic nun who had the stigmata sometime around WWII (I think).

Did you ever hear of her?

Marshall,

Sorry to hear about your friends' loss. I'll remember them in prayer.

Stefan

[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: Stefan-Ivan ]

Dear Stefan-Ivan,

First of all, thank you for your card. Christ is Risen!

I didn't hear of that, but there is no doubt this gift occurs and continues to occur.

I spoke with a Ukrainian priest who used to be in charge of these sort of things under Met. Andrew Sheptytsky.

He once investigated the case of a young girl who not only bled from the hands and feet, but a crown of thorns actually enveloped her head, the marks of such.

Alex

Dear Marshall,

May the Crucified and Risen Lord bless you and your family!

May He console your friends in their terrible loss.

May He bring us all into the peace and joy of His love!

Alex