Humm, interesting
http://www.divine-icons.com/galerie_icoane.htm

The first thought I had was "ugh...creepy" when I clicked on the link and saw them and then I read the "artist's" biography and found out that he is into witchcraft and the New Age. Initial impression confirmed!

Rybak,

I was perusing as well - where does it say that the artist is into New Age? Those titles he mentions are video games, not occult, unless I missed something.

I think some of them are quite beautiful!

Just a simple, "NO"

Kolya

Some of the ones of Our Lord have blue eyes. Very uncanonical and some might say . . . worse.

Like Alicia, I think that some are very beautiful. However, I find the face of Jesus in one or two to be downright disturbing to look out. He looks more like an evil practicer of the occult than the pure and beautiful Son of God...Kyrie Eleison! Think of the ethereal beauty of the most famous icon of Christ's face from the Haghia Sophia and then compare it to this one!

The dark video games he enjoys might explain this.

As for the blue eyes in and of themselves, that would not bother me...I recently watched a three hour movie CD from Greece about Elder Paissios of the Holy Mountain, (deceased 1993)--not yet glorified, but universally considered a Saint in the Greek Orthodox world, and many miracles are contributed to him since his death. Anyway, he once saw the Lord Jesus and he said that He had blue eyes and blondish hair.

In Greek Orthodoxy, blue eyes are often associated with purity and goodness.

Good to know, since I have blue eyes. I was kind of taken aback when I heard an iconography instructor say blue eyes in iconography is a sign of evil intent.

Oh, my God! No!!! After I saw these paintings I immediatelly wanted to have a rest looking at real icons ... Why do you call these computer images icons? The are not at all! I recommend you to have a rest after this kitsch and have a look to real neo-byzantine icons - "theology in paint", created by one of the famous comprehensive iconographers Archimandrite Zinon http://www.cirota.ru/forum/view.php?subj=32581&fullview=1&order
http://bizantinum.livejournal.com/69392.html?thread=3291664
http://www.art-sobor.ru/archives/2069

Michael,

I am of the opinion that being "into the occult or New Age" includes books, films, games, in fact willingly exposing oneself to any medium which glorifies Dark themes or Godless ideas. Call me "old fashioned" and I won't be offended at all.

I'm curious if others think it is harmless to enjoy/dabble in these things?

I thought they were a bit odd. I also thought it a bit odd, that they were used for an iconostasis. I did find the way the wood was used for the crucifixes interesting.
Like Nataly said, I had to thank
God for the beautiful works the Lord has done down through the centuries through the hands and prayers of amazing iconographers.

Michael: I totally agree with you and I think that fascination he has with these dark themed games is reflected in one disturbing (atleast to me) portrait of Jesus.

Alice

These pictures on wood are not a theme to be discussed. The author is from Transylvania (Dracula's motherhood )... But if we want to discuss modern painting in Romania, here are the monumental frescoes of a young iconographer from romanian town of Horezu Gabriel Thomas Chituk
http://www.art-sobor.ru/archives/2495
Bright and emotional - welcome to Neo-Byzantium!

Are you saying that his work is unacceptable simply by virtue of his place of birth?

While I agree that some of the images have creepy eyes and I do not like the iconostasis, I stand by my original statement that some of these icons are quite beautiful. What can you possibly object to in these, for example?

http://www.divine-icons.com/0_md_episcopMARE.jpg
http://www.divine-icons.com/sf_nicolae.jpg
http://www.divine-icons.com/xcristpal.jpg

And I rather like that he uses raw pieces of wood, and not only rectangular blocks.

The art at the link you posted, Nataly, is quite stunning. Thank you for sharing it.

No, of course, no! It was a joke! But the agressive message of these images remind us about the birthplace of the painter. I'm kidding one more time

These images are so far away from the spirituality of byzantine icons, that I wonder why they are discussed hier on the forum and also called Neo-byzantine icons? There were no images in the history of Byzantine art like these.
Have a look to the holy images http://www.ruicon.ru/arts-new/icons/7x3-dtl.php
God bless you!

Nataly, I completely agree. Anyone who likes these things and thinks they are "icons" fails to understand what an icon is and what the Church teaches about the sacred images.

http://www.goholycross.org/studies/studies_icons.html

Nataly,

To answer your questions, keep in mind that Rose didn't term them Neo-Byzantine icons - the artist did that. As to why they are discussed ... it's really for the same reason that we discuss any non-traditional artwork that is presented as iconography. We can't hope to appreciate or cultivate an understanding of what an ucon is, how it should be presented, and so forth, without also helping folks to understand what is not an icon or what is questionably an icon. And, that is best accomplished by being able to compare.

As regards the pieces in question, I agree with my sister and friend, Alicia, in not liking the iconostasis, which I find more distracting than edifying or spiritually uplifting. My feelings are a bit more ambivalent about the so-called icons themselves.

Again, I agree with Alicia that the use of natural pieces of tree, versus the usually rectangular boards to which we are accustomed, is interesting and it doesn't offend me. At the very least, I find it intriguing that something which God has created for us is attempting to be used, in its natural state, as an adjunct to our prayer life. However, I must admit s certain skepticism that it may be more a marketing ploy than a conscious choice with spiritually edifying undertones.

As to the icons themselves, ... I find myself universally disliking the presentation of Christ as an adult. The depictions do nothing for me spiritually - although I'm unconvinced of any ulterior motive. They just are lacking in any sense of Godliness; I think the gentleman has tried to create a 'style' to call his own and that's not what iconography is about.

As regards the Western images (e.g., St Jose Escriva), I'm just not generally a fan of Western saints in icons, with few exceptions and none of these satisfy those exceptions.

The images of the Theotokos with the Child, however, I find to be generally well-executed, edifying, and canonically satisfactory as icons. Likewise, the full-length icon of St Nicholas, though I intensely dislike the headshot one.

All in all, I think the gentleman has talent, but needs to refine his styling of some subject matter, I won't criticize his intentions, because I know of no reason to call those into question. That he plays video games - along with many other folk in the world, including - I suspect - some otherwise very 'normal' and perhaps even holy persons, is hardly a basis for labeling him as an occultist or believing that he's falling into such praxis. (My personal opinion on such an avocation, is that it generally lacks the thrill to be had from reading a good mystery or biography, but who are we who devote hours to conversing with like-minded folk behind computer screens to say so.)

Many years,

Neil

That is why discussions like this are important. It helps people who are just starting to learn to see why they don't necessarily fit the reality of iconography, even though they may have parts of it.

Well said, my friend and sister!

Many years,

Neil

Neil,
Thank you for your answer and your polite point of view. But it’s seems to me so pity, that the theme of such intelligent discussion concerns such kind of paintings. I think, such drawings may only cause real tiredness, rejection and protest among the religious people.
I visited the exhibition in Moscow Museum of fine art yesterday. There held two tremendous exhibitions at the same time – “Caravaggio” and “William Blake”. After I visited the hall with beautiful masterpieces of the Italian painter, I went to the second exhibition with the hope to prolong my journey to the world of Christian art. Though the themes of Blake’s series of relief etching are dedicated to the Bible subjects, they seem to be far away from the deep, quite, true religious feeling, which we get, looking to the icons. In comparison with Caravaggio the drawings of William Blake seem to be too nervous, expressional and demonical. Though I understand the context of this art, it’s literary and philosophical component and a historical background of the epoch and I find the author a very interesting person in the history of mankind. But telling the truth, I went back again to the first exhibition to have a rest among the masterpieces of Caravaggio. The light, silence and a deep religious experience filled my soul. I think, the criterion of what we call – Christian art is in our desire of prayer. If we want to pray looking to the creation of a painter we can accept this work as a masterpiece of Christian art.
I highly recommend a book of famous Russian theologian Pavel Florensky “Iconostasis” to anyone who wants to understand what an icon is.
http://www.amazon.com/Iconostasis-Pavel-Florensky/dp/0881411175

After the Ressurection:
http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/william-blake#supersized-religious-painting-192857
http://www.caravaggio-foundation.org/Supper-at-Emmaus-2-large.html

The Nativity:
http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/william-blake#supersized-religious-painting-192956
http://caravaggio.com/preview/database/enlarged.php?id=000001

Others:
http://www.wikipaintings.org/en/william-blake#supersized-religious-painting-192934
http://www.caravaggio-foundation.org/the-complete-works.html

Dear Nataly,

First of all, I would like to extend a very warm welcome to you and we are greatly priveledged to have someone from Russia among us! I hope that you will continue to post and bring us perspective of Orthodox Christianity from Russia.

How wonderful that you were able to experience that exhibit! Thank you for the links, and I do agree with you, that Caravaggio is more soothing as religious art to the soul than Blake..I think that the soul of the artist and where he is spiritually and mentally is often evoked in his artistic expression.

I also can feel that you are obviously very passionate about iconography and that is a blessed and wonderful thing!

As a student of Art History, I can understand your passion, and I agree with you that art can bring so many different emotions to our soul--some of it spiritual, some of it soothing, some of it disturbing.

That is why art is considered 'subjective', as are all things of beauty--music, architecture, etc. (whether religious or secular)--because beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.

In Christ our Lord,
Alice

P.S. What do you think of the iconography in the Russian Orthodox Church of St. Nicholas in NYC (which I have been to)??

click here [en.wikipedia.org]

Dear Alice,

I’m happy to have a chance to communicate with brothers and sisters from other confessions and to tell them something about the Russian Orthodox Church. I see this theme causes a vivid interest among the members of this forum.
It’s so nice that you are a student of Art history! I do understand what a romantic time of search and exploration you have now! I’ve studied Art history too!


What about the Church of St. Nicholas in NYC? I want to understand what do you mean when you ask about the “iconography of the church”? If you ask about the program of frescoes, I have to see all the pictures of walls, arches, altar and apse and so on, so that I’ll try to explain what a painter wanted to tell. We must understand what we mean when we use the word “iconography”. There is a special canon (rules) - κανόνας (Greek) in a depiction of a subject or a saint. Every religious subject has it’s canonical iconography (amount of figures, heroes of the subjects, their dresses, gestures). But every subject or holy image can have its own special interpretation or can be showed in different ways. Here is the most exciting thing in the history of Byzantine art! You can take one subject for your scientific research and you will know the only one iconographic canon of this subject, but you will at the same time explore a great variety of it’s interpretations in terms of local school, traditions, cultural influences and of course a time (epoch).
For example, if we take the Annunciation icon. It is depicted always the same way: Archangel Gabriel, The Virgin Mary (in Russian Orthodox tradition - Bogoroditza – Birthgiver of God) and some architectural motifs behind. But all icons or frescoes on this subject either from the central districts of Byzantine Empire or its provinces, from ancient Russia either from Vladimir-Suzdal region or from Novgorod and other local schools, all of them are quite different not because of their iconography, but because of the special interpretation of the Annunciation subject.
And the Church of St. Nicholas in NY? If I visited it I shouldn’t think about the iconography there, but about God and prayer, I guess.
God bless you!

Annunciation icons from different times and schools:

Ustujskoe Blagoveshenie (Ustug Annunciation), Novgorod, first half of XIIth с.
http://www.megabook.ru/DescriptionImage.asp?MID=447124&AID=616197

St. Catherine’s Monastery, Sinai, XII c.
http://gabrielsmessage.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/icon_sinai_annunciation_12th_century.jpg

St. George’s Church in Kurbinovo, Macedonia, 1191
http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/4/81/251/81251552_large_88.jpg

Byzantine, Constantinopol, XIV c
http://ru-icons.ru/part6/part61/1_1_57-3.htm

Patmos, Greece, XVII c
http://ru-icons.ru/part15/part151/1_1_119-13.htm

Russia, academical style, XIX c.
http://ru-icons.ru/part6/part61/1_1_57-13.htm

Dear Nataly,

Christ is among us!

My mistake--I *was* a student of Art History in University, many years ago!

They aren't Byzantine, but I love the fresco iconography at the Russian Cathedral here in NYC.

Anyway, here is a nice synopsis of the church's history:

With the blessing of the newly appointed bishop of the Aleutian and Alaska Tikhon, later Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, in September 1899 a specially established committee bought a plot of 150 yards on East 97th Street, between Madison and Fifth Avenue, valued at 72,000 rubles. On this site a temple was supposed to be build, which could accommodate 900 people, a room for Sunday school, a room for festive gatherings and apartments of the clergy. Construction costs were estimated at 114,000 rubles, or $57 000.

Two months later the Holy Synod received the highest resolution of the Emperor Nicholas Alexandrovich to collect necessary funds. To implement this Father Alexander Hotovitsky as chairman of building committee went to Russia in February 1900.

Икона для истории собораThe first installment for construction - 5,000 gold rubles - was received from the Emperor Nicholas II.

Invaluable were the prayers and moral support made by deeply honored and loved St.Father John of Kronstadtskiy. Besides, he donated 200 rubles, and on the first page of special institutions for the record books he wrote, "God Bless this book and the work, to which these donations are requested...”

The example of the Royal Family and the bishops of the Church was followed by lots of Orthodox Christians. In Russia, often after Father Alexander Hotovitsky's calls that sounded from the pulpit of churches, parishioners donated their earrings, rings, necklaces, bracelets. And yet, the funds collected were not enough for the erection of the church. Then, in 1901, on the Feast of the Epiphany, the Holy Synod decreed collecting of donations in all churches in Russia for the construction of the Orthodox cathedral in New York.

The cornerstone of the cathedral was laid on May 9 (May 22, New Style), 1901 (the day of the Translation of Saint Nicholas' relics). Throughout the route of the procession from the church on Second Avenue to 97th Street all houses were decorated with American and Russian flags. In the presence of thousands of believers who came from Washington, representatives of the Russian embassy, headed by Count Cassini, the Consul General in New York Mr. Teplov, officers and sailors of the Battleship Retvizan, that was under construction in Philadelphia, as well as New York City Mayor Seth Low, Bishop Tikhon consecrated the cornerstone.

Eighteen months later, the best American construction firm at the time, John Downey and Son "under the supervision of architect Burgess erected a building of St. Nicholas Cathedral. The first service in a newly built church was held on November 10 (23 OS), 1902. According to witnesses, it was attended by more than two thousand believers (twice the designed capacity), and no less than a thousand worshipers stood in the street. In his sermon, referring to all those present, Bishop Tikhon said, "... the church worthy of the Russian nation has been built in this great city, which meets the grandeur of the Orthodox faith".

A telegram of greetings on the occasion of the consecration of the first Russian Orthodox Cathedral in New York was obtained from Livadia from Emperor Nicholas Alexandrovich.

In 1905, Bishop Tikhon was elevated to the rank of Archbishop and moved his residence and the diocesan office from San Francisco to New York. St. Nicholas Cathedral now became the cathedral, taking upon himself the mission of the spiritual center of Russian Orthodoxy in North America.

For almost a hundred years of its existence in New York, St. Nicholas Cathedral - as a center of spiritual life and prayer - houses many sacred objects:

1. Reliquary, sent in 1901 to the cathedral as a blessing from the Holy Mount Athos - the attached list contains the names of saints whose relics are kept there.

Икона Святителя Тихона2. St. Tikhon icon with a particle of his relics, presented to the cathedral by His Holiness Patriarch Alexy II on the day of the 90th anniversary of the cathedral.

3. Altarpiece Resurrection (stained glass) donated in memory of the cathedral toiler Varvara Nikolaevna Mak Gahan (nee Elagina) in 1907.

Запрестольный крест4. Altar cross from the battleship “Retvizan”. Sailors from "Varyag"and "Retvisan" were the first parishioners and the first donors of the cathedral. Both battleships were sunk at Port Arthur in 1904.

5. "Calvary". Work of A.A. Neratov. The gift of Russian immigrants. 1950.

To the year of 1973 we refer a special event that speaks for St. Nicholas Cathedral's cultural significance in the life of the city – it became a monument of architecture in New York City and the Architectural Society of the city pinned to its wall a bronze plaque with the text that underlines the uniqueness of the building.

In 2000, the state of the church was close to crashing and it was decided to carry out repair and restoration works that were completed in 2002 to celebrate the centenary of the cathedral.

those icons are not Neo-Byzantine, they are kitsch...

Thank you, Alice very much! An interesting information. Geting acquainted with this church in NY I read a very tragical story about the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox church near the WTC that was completely buried on September 11, 2001. Will it be rebuilt? What is going on in your long-suffering city now? Hope to hearing from you!

Alice,

Here are some photos of the 97th Street (MP) Cathedral, NYC I have more on my cd, I sang there for a number of years under the direction of Professor Kalabiev.

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/UES/UES092.htm

The colors I recall however were different shades in some areas than those seen here after the renovations.

Thanks Joy. Yes, I attended a Liturgy there one year on the feast day of my beloved St. Xenia Petersburg.

Dear Nataly, The little Greek Orthodox church of St. Nicholas which was buried in the 9/11 tragedy, after many negotiations with the Port Authority of the City which is in charge of rebuilding the whole area, has finally been given the right to rebuild, and it will be larger and more glorious this time...

My priest went to help with the rescue effort after this tragedy, and they found some wax candles under the ash which he brought to church and used in the memorial service (panakhida)which we had for the dead of that tragedy... There were more than a few Orthodox Christians who perished that day.

Here is some information and photos of the old church. It was so small, but such a peaceful little place where people went from all walks of life and all religions to pray and meditate in the middle of the busy financial district of NYC. It was originally built for the Orthodox sailors who would come into port a at the beginning of the 1900's. Also, the icons of the church were a gift by Tsar Nicholas II.

http://www.nyc-architecture.com/GON/GON002.htm

Best regards,
Alice

Alice - there's something missing in your post

Hehehe, I am so scatter brained! (I don't know if that phrase is in vogue anymore, but my mother always liked to use it!)

Thanks, Anhelyna, for bringing it to my attention!

You are welcome Alice, I would not recognize it as there have been many changes since my time (1980's) and all those I know who attended are long gone. I did however also sing for the canonization of the former Tsar at the Synod Cathedral on 92th Street (we ran from 97th to 92nd as we had been asked to participate, art knew no boundries in those days), that was something interesting to see.

What a good brisk Manhattan walk!

How wonderful to have been at the Synod service for the canonization of the Tsar Great Martyr Nicholas!!

After reading a wonderful book called 'An Englishman in the Court of the Tsar: The Spiritual Journey of Charles Syndney Gibbes [amazon.com]' by Christine Benagh, I truly came to love the Holy Royal martyrs in a profound way.

Yes Alice, indeed it was a brisk walk, actually more of a cripes, lets run like mad and hurry it up and get in the door and up the stairs as the church was mobbed (and is very small inside to begin with) but, we made it right in time to take the first note (while holding our sides and gasping for air!)... we were invited, just the choir members, no one else, in those days things were a tad uncomfortable between 92nd and 97th but again, art is art), but all in all, it was something to see and another new experience to add to my singing C.V.

Found myself looking for the 'like' button

Dear Alice. I'm happy to know, that this beautiful place will be rebuild! As I understood from the link you gave, among the items that were salvaged from the ruins were only several things - a book, a bell and a gong from the bell... and no icons at all? Is there any information about these icons? Any photos, reproductions?

Dearest sister in Christ, Nataly,

This is all I could find:


'Zoodochos Pege' means the Virgin of Life Giving Spring.

I am sure there must be photos somewhere, but I haven't been able to find.

In Christ,
Alice

Dear Alice,
these icons are Greek. Interesting to know which icons where the gift of the Tsar? Which images were depicted on them? I guess it was St. Nicholas. He is very beloved in Russia and also he is a patron of the Tzar Nicholas II. I think, the prior of this church can tell us something about these special icons.
God bless you.

Dear Nataly,

Slava Bogu!! I found these photos:

http://www.stnicholasnyc.com/

Maybe the silver iconstasis is from the Tsar Martyr Nicholas II? Maybe some other icons?

Please, you seem to know iconography well, so tell me which ones you think. Ofcourse, there are only three photos, but you can still see the iconography.

With love in Christ,
Alice

There are a couple of other photos as well, including one of the items retrieved from the debris - which shows one of the icons which were recovered.

Many years,

Neil

Dear Alice,
thank you for the link. I think you are right - the silver iconostasis (the icons in silver frame) could be the gift of the Tsar.
God bless you!
Nataly