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Posted By: Justin Kolodziej The Sacrament/Mystery of Anointing - 03/16/14 11:02 PM
In the Roman Church Anointing used to be reserved for those near death, and still is for those in serious illness or near the end of their life. Is this the same praxis in the Eastern Churches or is it available on a more liberal basis?
Posted By: Pasisozi Re: The Sacrament/Mystery of Anointing - 03/17/14 11:38 AM
More liberally. Eastern Catholics follow the Aposotolic practice in this regard.

In the Byzantine tradition, there is a general anointing in the middle of Holy Week.
The pre-Vatican II practice could be ghoulish! If a Catholic was to be electrocuted, they had to give him a good jolt first so that he would be near death; the priest came in and anointed the poor soul and then the executioner finished him off. Is this an example of WWJD?
Posted By: crule Re: The Sacrament/Mystery of Anointing - 03/17/14 12:46 PM
So, I just had surgery recently. Minor surgery, and not life-threatening (other than the normal precautions like post-op infections, or reactions to anesthesia).

Could I have asked my priest for holy annointing prior to the surgery?

Or now, as I recover and try to regain strength / mobility in the limb that had the operation?

I think that any situation requiring healing of soul and body (especially where general anaesthesia is administered) is an apt justification for Holy Anointing. When possible this should be preceded by Confession.
Posted By: StuartK Re: The Sacrament/Mystery of Anointing - 03/18/14 12:11 PM
Quote
Could I have asked my priest for holy annointing prior to the surgery?

Yes.

Quote
Or now, as I recover and try to regain strength / mobility in the limb that had the operation?

Yes, yet again.
Posted By: LatinTrad Re: The Sacrament/Mystery of Anointing - 03/31/14 02:39 PM
Originally Posted by Ot'ets Nastoiatel'
The pre-Vatican II practice could be ghoulish! If a Catholic was to be electrocuted, they had to give him a good jolt first so that he would be near death; the priest came in and anointed the poor soul and then the executioner finished him off. Is this an example of WWJD?

Oh, come on Father. For shame. This was "the pre-Vatican II practice?" Sometimes you guys have no sense of intellectual responsibility whatsoever when there's an opportunity to rip the hated Latins.
Posted By: LatinTrad Re: The Sacrament/Mystery of Anointing - 03/31/14 02:44 PM
I should add that I received Holy Anointing several times when I was going through various stages of cancer treatment. No one ever suggested that I should be electrocuted first. I think anti-Catholic BS like this is a major source of scandal.
It was unquestionably the pre-Vatican II practice as anyone who's been around the block a few times can testify! Furthermore, I do not hate the Latins; I simply let them go their own way and request only that they allow us to do the same. Once again I plead: are there not enough neo-con, traddie, Latinophrone sites for you to graze? Won't you kindly leave us this one wherein to spend the rest of our lives in peace and repentance?
(Your bizarre point about not being electrocuted before receiving anointing of the sick is quite beside the point: you were mortally ill! Perhaps it was a failed attempt at humor. That's OK: just don't give up the day job!)
Posted By: Epiphanius Re: The Sacrament/Mystery of Anointing - 04/01/14 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by LatinTrad
Originally Posted by Ot'ets Nastoiatel'
The pre-Vatican II practice could be ghoulish! If a Catholic was to be electrocuted, they had to give him a good jolt first so that he would be near death; the priest came in and anointed the poor soul and then the executioner finished him off.
Oh, come on Father ... This was "the pre-Vatican II practice?"
Originally Posted by Ot'ets Nastoiatel'
It was unquestionably the pre-Vatican II practice as anyone who's been around the block a few times can testify!
Father, I have to confess that I never heard the part about the pre-execution anointing, although I can attest that the norm was for "Extreme Unction" to be given to those "in danger of death."

From my own experience, I can say that my grandfather passed away in 1961. When the priest came to anoint him, he announced that permission had just been received to perform this rite in the vernacular, and he would therefore be using English. Everyone present was simply *amazed* when they heard the prayers, since nearly all of them were for the patient's recovery!

Obviously, there was a big disconnect between the "norm" and what the prayers of the rite actually said.


Peace,
Deacon Richard
Posted By: LatinTrad Re: The Sacrament/Mystery of Anointing - 04/01/14 07:15 PM
Dear Father N,

I'm afraid we got off on the wrong foot. I am aware that the law of the Latin church has always forbidden prisoners to receive Anointing before their execution, precisely because it is the Sacrament of the Sick, and the prisoner is not sick. If he were otherwise ill, then he would of course be a proper recipient. My point about my own experience (although humorously stated) was that I received anointing several times during various stages of treatment; there was no requirement that I have one foot in the grave before doing so.

I really am disappointed that you would make an unsubstantiated allegation of "goulish" liturgical praxis against the Western Church, especially when it was so gratuitous in context. I am also disappointed that you would invite me to leave the forum simply because I called you on it. You don't know me. I've been a member of this forum for twelve years. I am not a neo-con. Nor am I a "traddie" in the sense that you mean. I can't really say more, because I really prefer to keep my identity private on here, but trust me when I say that I am profoundly well acquainted with the traditions, theology, spirituality, and history of the Christian East, for which I have the deepest possible reverence.
You mean clergy are actually running forums here?
Posted By: Mark R Re: The Sacrament/Mystery of Anointing - 04/10/14 09:48 PM
Anointing is medicine too. As referenced by St. James in his letter, the context implies it is medicine. It is a holy mystery because healing was Christ's most often performed of miracles. That's just how I see it.
The pre-Vatican II praxis vis-a`-vis prisoners to be executed WAS ghoulish! Don't confuse the herald with the message. I didn't invite you to leave the forum because you 'called me on it' but because your own user name LatinTrad identifies you more accurately than any words of mine. Your final words (oh, would that it were so!) were as self-aggrandizing as any I have ever read. While there is still time make your own the sentiments of St. Ephrem the Syrian's Lenten Prayer. I will do the same. Perhaps I'll join some Luddite Latin traddie site and overwhelm them with blogs about the Uncreated Light of Thabor, chotki, hesychasm, apocatastasis the Malko (Holy Leaven) etc. Do you think I'll receive the warm welcome you have so egregiously abused here?
Posted By: LatinTrad Re: The Sacrament/Mystery of Anointing - 04/12/14 08:32 AM
Господи и владико животѹ моемѹ, духъ оунынїѧ, небрежεнїѧ, срεбролюбїѧ и празднословїѧ ѿжεни ѿ мεнε.

Духъ же цѣломѹдрїѧ, смиренїѧ, терпѣнїѧ и любве дарѹй ми рабѹ твоемѹ.

Ей Господи Царю, даждь ми зрѣти моѧ согрѣшенїѧ, и еже не ωсуждати брата моегω, якω благословенъ еси во вѣки. Аминь

Please forgive me for any offense I have caused you Father; and pray for me if you get the chance.
Взаимно, братец!
In fact, the Mystery of Holy Anointing in the East is not a "last rites" at all - it is a Mystery intended to heal, as has been pointed out.

The reception of Holy Confession and Holy Communion is how a soul prepares for eternity in the East - so a person about to be executed could (and indeed should) receive these Holy Mysteries.

Enough said smile

Alex
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