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Posted By: Alice Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 12:09 PM
Last Updated: Friday, 24 June, 2005, 10:21 GMT 11:21 UK

Jerusalem bans gay pride parade

An Israeli soldier holds a rainbow-coloured flag at a gay pride parade in Jerusalem on 3 June 2004
Jerusalem says holding a gay pride parade would be 'provocative'
Jerusalem authorities have said they are banning a gay pride parade planned for next week, saying the event would be "provocative" and set off unrest.

The Jerusalem Open House group, which is organising the march scheduled for 30 June, said it would challenge the decision in court on Sunday.

The organisation said police had already approved the parade route.

The event has been held for the last three years and previously passed off peacefully albeit under heavy security.

"It wouldn't be right to authorise the march and the related festivities in Jerusalem out of the concern that it would be provocative and hurt the feelings of the broader public living in and visiting the city," the municipality said in a public notice to the organisers.


The actions of the mayor, and those carrying out his policies, are injurious to the values of freedom of expression
Hagai El-Ad
Jerusalem Open House director

Open House dismissed the comments.

"The actions of the mayor, and those carrying out his policies, are injurious to the values of freedom of expression," said director Hagai El-Ad.

"The city of Jerusalem continues in its discriminatory policy against the Jerusalem Open House and the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community in Jerusalem."

'Sodom' fears

Three months ago, Christian, Jewish and Muslim religious leaders held a news conference calling for gay festivals in Jerusalem to be banned.

They said a gay parade through the city could spark violence.

One Muslim cleric suggested gay events in Jerusalem would attract divine wrath similar to that which destroyed the biblical city of Sodom.

Several weeks ago, Jerusalem Open House postponed an international gay event, Jerusalem WorldPride 2005, that had been scheduled for August and would have coincided with Israel's planned Gaza pullout.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4618465.stm
Posted By: Brian Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 02:00 PM
I worry for the state of democracy in Israel when freedom of expression of the individual is limited in such ways. by the tyranny of the majority (especially this "new" category, the "feelings" of the majority)
Posted By: Carson Daniel Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 02:11 PM
I wasn't going to comment but when the door is open...I fear for civilation when marches like this exist.

Dan L
Posted By: DAVIDinVA Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 02:44 PM
I fear for democracy when marches like this are banned. How sad that the only Christian, Jewish and Moslem leaders in the Middle East can get together is to attack another group.
Posted By: byzanTN Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 02:54 PM
When one of these marches is held, it seems to me that the media shows up, crowds of protesters appear, and the march gets huge amounts of publicity. Let them have the march. Stay home, don't watch the news about it, don't give it any free publicity or attention - in short, ignore it.
Posted By: Lawrence Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 03:00 PM
Hats off to the Christians,Jews and Moslems who took a firm stand against public indecency in the city where Our Saviour marched to his crucifixion.
Posted By: Unsubscribe Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 03:08 PM
Some day, "values of freedom of expression" will be an accepted democratic alibi.

Quote
"The city of Jerusalem continues in its discriminatory policy against the Jerusalem Open House and the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community in Jerusalem."
GOOD! THANK GOD!
Posted By: Gaudior Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 04:41 PM
Excellent!

Gaudior, gettting a bit tired of people who insist on public parades and in-your-face sinning.
Posted By: byzanTN Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 05:44 PM
Gay pride parades are a reality in the U.S. and what worked in Jerusalem probably won't get them banned here. I think this is a small, but loud, minority that seeks attention. What if they held a gay pride parade and no one showed up but themselves?
Posted By: Brian Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 06:59 PM
I believe we have something called the First Amendment here, so don't expect many bannings of free expression in a democratic society.
Posted By: incognitus Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 07:25 PM
Does the "State of Israel" have a constitution? If not, I fear that any appeals to the courts over human rights - including the rights of Arab Palestinians, and the rights of the remaining Christian population - will accomplish nothing.

Incognitus
Posted By: DAVIDinVA Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 08:28 PM
Every modern nation has a constitution of one kind or another, but I don't know much about Isreal's. Given that the state was founded in the latter half of the 20th century I would assume "freedom of speech" and "freedom of expresion" would be included in it.
Posted By: CJ Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 08:44 PM
Let us hope that moral Americans will use their free speech rights to teach the homosexuals that what they do is an abomination before God.
Posted By: Ray S. Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 08:53 PM
Quote
I fear for democracy when marches like this are banned. How sad that the only Christian, Jewish and Moslem leaders in the Middle East can get together is to attack another group.
When democracy allows marches like the above is when democracy fails.
Posted By: CJ Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 08:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by incognitus:
Does the "State of Israel" have a constitution? If not, I fear that any appeals to the courts over human rights - including the rights of Arab Palestinians, and the rights of the remaining Christian population - will accomplish nothing.

Incognitus
Christians in Israel are discriminated against. Christians in Palestine are persecuted. The Christian population in Israel is growing. In 2000 when Barak spoke of re-partitioning Jerusalem to give some of the land to be governed by the Palestine authority there were thousands of requests from east Jerusalem Arabic Christians for Israel identity cards. Christians are far better off in a Jewish Israel then they are in a Moslem Palestine.
Posted By: Brian Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 09:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ray Stiegler:
Quote
I fear for democracy when marches like this are banned. How sad that the only Christian, Jewish and Moslem leaders in the Middle East can get together is to attack another group.
When democracy allows marches like the above is when democracy fails.
Democracy is for the protection of the rights of minorities over the tyranny of the majority
Posted By: Brian Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 09:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by CJ:
Let us hope that moral Americans will use their free speech rights to teach the homosexuals that what they do is an abomination before God.
We are all sinners. Let us hope that we live up to our Christian Faith and love one another as He has loved us
Posted By: Lawrence Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 09:49 PM
The purpose of so called Gay Pride is not to demonstrate that we are all sinners in need of God's mercy, but rather to proclaim that acts which God has condemned as an abomination are perfectly acceptable.
Posted By: Gaudior Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/24/05 11:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Brian:
Democracy is for the protection of the rights of minorities over the tyranny of the majority [/QB]
Would that tyrannical majority to which you refer happen to be the Church Triumphant?

Gaudior, wondering how you can say such things and yet say that your belief is Orthodox
Posted By: byzanTN Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 01:49 AM
Sometimes I wonder if we suffer from the tyranny of the minority.
Posted By: Gaudior Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 01:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by byzanTN:
Sometimes I wonder if we suffer from the tyranny of the minority.
Never mind them, Charles...have some chocolate and forget biggrin
Posted By: byzanTN Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 02:21 AM
Gaudior, I have reached the age where most things bounce off me and have little lasting impact anymore. The chocolate sounds great. I think I will have some. biggrin
Posted By: Brian Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 02:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gaudior:
Quote
Originally posted by Brian:
Democracy is for the protection of the rights of minorities over the tyranny of the majority
Would that tyrannical majority to which you refer happen to be the Church Triumphant?

Gaudior, wondering how you can say such things and yet say that your belief is Orthodox [/QB]
Gaudior,

I am an Orthodox Christian and I am also an American citizen who believes in the Constitution and right of free expression and religious tolerance (I hope all Americans believe in that!) If you read The Federalist Papers, one of the foundations of this country was the protection of the rights of minorities from the tyranny of compulsion by a majority. I don't apologize for thinking that. One does not have to be a political conservative to be an Orthodox Christian and that was not on the list of those affirmations of the Orthodox Faith that I accepted at my Chrismation. I highly resent that implication about my Faith.



Peace to you although we disagree,


Brian
Posted By: Gaudior Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 03:08 AM
Dear Brian,

Political conservative? No. Adhering to the Orthodox faith, yes. Politics has nothing to do with it.

Gaudior, who really thinks that you should know by now that practicing homosexuality is in opposition to what the Church teaches, therefore, acting as advocate for the misbehaviour of people who identify with their sin and build their lives around it is also wrong.
Posted By: incognitus Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 07:11 AM
The last time I looked, the "State of Israel" had no constitution. I have no reason to believe that a constitution has been adopted - but I could have missed it, which is why I inquired.

There are some countries of the Middle East which the Christians are leaving as fast as they can - that definitely includes the "State of Israel". But Syria, to take a good example, although a Muslim country, does not persecute the indigenous Christian Churches or individual Christians, which is why the Christian presence in the Old City of Damascus is visible and large. Aleppo is still an important Christian center. Christians from Turkey, Iraq and elsewhere have found refuge in Syria.

Incognitus
Posted By: Irish Melkite Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 07:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by incognitus:
The last time I looked, the "State of Israel" had no constitution. I have no reason to believe that a constitution has been adopted - but I could have missed it, which is why I inquired.
Incognitus,

It still does not, although the courts have accorded a certain "constitutional" status to various statutes:

Quote
Although Israel does not have a single complete constitutional document, in its forty-five years of statehood the Jewish state has developed an operative constitution of its own, embodied in a set of written texts that reflect the political system on which the state is based, its social content, and an expanding constitutional tradition. Those texts were properly promulgated by the representatives of the people and recognized as constitutional by Israel's Supreme Court. The texts are collected and presented here for what they are -- Israel's operative constitution that determines the basic operations of the Israeli polity, the basic rules of governance enforced by those empowered to execute and enforce the law and, as such, interpreted by the courts as a constitution.
The "Constitution" of the State of Israel [jcpa.org]

Many years,

Neil who, while not supportive of gay pride parades, agrees with Brian that restrictions on freedom of expression should be minimal and imposed only when the risk posed to public safety is clear, weighing the "feelings" of the majority, but not neglecting or ignoring the reality that there are minorities
Posted By: Alice Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 12:36 PM
Dear Neil,

You know I love you, but on this we disagree.

Ask Father Benedict Groeschel what goes on infront of St. Patrick's Cathedral at the Gay Parades in NYC. Suffice it to say, it might make one sick because of the desecration and blatant lewd actions.

I don't think that we can equate ethnic pride parades with Gay Parades.

In the name of etiquette, I don't think that parades should be held that advertise or promote what goes on in a person's bedroom. How would we feel about a 'Swinger's Pride' parade, or something like that? Why wouldn't that be equivalent?

Personally, I feel that Jerusalem is the holiest of cities in the world for the three major monotheistic religions. God willing, I hope to be going there this coming Fall on pilgrimage with my priest and others from my church.

The last thing I would like to encounter at this most sacred of all cities, when I hope to be transcended to higher spirituality and to another reality, is this kind of thing to remind me that all morality is relative in today's society and that, let's face it, the idolatry of sex reigns in these troubled times..

In Christ,
Alice, who reminds some nice posters here that this is not condemning their or their loved one's struggles, nor is it being intolerant of something people cannot control, but thinks that the sins we struggle with should be kept to ourselves and not marched around under the banner of 'pride'.
Posted By: byzanTN Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 01:15 PM
Alice, it's the "Oprah-ization" of America. No one has any secrets or, it seems, any shame anymore.
Posted By: Our Lady's slave Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 01:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by byzanTN:
Alice, it's the "Oprah-ization" of America. No one has any secrets or, it seems, any shame anymore.
They happen here too - and they are really proud of their actions. Why do they have the right to force their opinions on those who do not agree. They are entitled to their opinions - and so are we - but tolerance seems to fly out of the window.

Sorry - sore point - was in Glasgow today and it was the BIG Orange parade - talk about not forcing your views - it's not safe to try and cross the road - you have to stand there till the parade has passed - could well take over an hour - but there you are - stuck !

Anhelyna
Posted By: Yuhannon Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 03:34 PM
Shlomo CJ,

Sorry it has taken me a little bit to comment to this, but I have been very busy. Your facts about how Christians are treated in Israel are incorrect if you are refering to the indigenous Christian Arab population.

The reason that the Christian population has grown was because of immigration of Russians into Israel based on that state's Law of Return.

Here is what is driving out Christians in the Holy Land:

Unemployment- Frequent disruptions of the local economy due to religious and ethnic conflicts have taken their toll. Among Christian Palestinians and Muslims, unemployment has reached 50 percent for men and 85 percent for women. A recent study indicates that 30 percent of all Christians living in the Holy Land (Israel, West Bank and Gaza) are unemployed. Unemployment in the area is exacerbated by the on-going closure of the West Bank and Gaza to principal Israeli cities where the majority of Palestinians had been employed. The average annual income ranges from $4,000 to $6,000.

Education- The vast majority of Christians cannot afford the cost of higher education. The closures of territories due to the long-standing ethnic conflicts in the Holy Land completely disrupt the educational system for Christians and Muslims. During the closures, children and teachers may not be permitted to attend school for extended periods, and university students are also prohibited from pursuing their studies at schools outside the closure area.

Housing- The current shortage of subsidized housing is a major factor in the ongoing exodus of Christians, for whom rent costs, even for the inferior living arrangements, are prohibitively high.

Medical Care- Decreased income and high unemployment have left a great many Christians unable to afford even basic medical care for themselves and their children.

Also at present Israel is interfering with the Orthodox Church's affairs which is bringing matters to a boiling point.

Lastly, I would recommend that you consult Middle Eastern Christian sites about these matters instead of taking raw data that has not been properly outlined.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon
Posted By: incognitus Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 08:04 PM
Dear Yuhannon,
Happy to see you on this thread. That so-called "partial constitution" isn't worth the paper it's not written on, as you and I (and others) are only too well aware. One really must ask, insistently, how it is possible to encourage a "State" whose basic premise is religious discrimination.

I've never seen one of those Gay Pride parades, so I wouldn't know what goes on at them. Since I have lived in several large cities, where presumably such festivities take place, it can't be that difficult to avoid them - which I've made no effort to do either; I just go about my business.

The only Orange parade I've ever actually seen was a rather pitiful one that I happened to catch a glimpse of by driving past the street where it was held - there couldn't have been more than fifty people. Unfortunately, in some countries (including Scotland, I gather) these affairs are a lot more intimidating. I'd be inclined to consider the Orange parades as more similar to a Ku Klux Klan demonstration than to a Gay Pride parade. However, I cheerfully admit that I've never attended either a KKK demo or a Gay Pride parade, nor do I intend to. Then again, I've also never attended a presidential inauguration. However, you may be reassured to learn that as a child I was taken to Santa Claus parades once or twice. Otherwise, my experience is limited to peace demonstrations and the like.

By the way, I just realized earlier today that Ku Klux Klan is thought to derive from the Greek κυκλοσ. Yet another piece of useless information.

Incognitus
Posted By: Brian Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/25/05 08:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Alice:
In Christ,
Alice, who reminds some nice posters here that this is not condemning their or their loved one's struggles, nor is it being intolerant of something people cannot control, but thinks that the sins we struggle with should be kept to ourselves and not marched around under the banner of 'pride'.
Alice,

This is the last time I will comment on this thread but actually gay pride parades were not and are not symbolic of what you seem to think they are. They came out of years of discrimination and harrassment of gay people by police etc before the late 60's (if you talk to gay people of that generation, you would understand what people went through) and they are a celebration and a reflection that such discrimination is now a thing of the past. That is something I'm glad about because I have heard the stories of what people went through in the past and it was not at all Christian. I know you mean very well and have the best of intentions but I guess we must agree to disagree about these things and that's fine smile But I just want people to see gay people as individuals first and not as part of a "mass" group which I have heard some on the right speak of them as. I know too many people to think that is right or just or Christian.

Peace,
Brian

Thank you Neil and Ignognitus for your good posts!
Posted By: eli Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/26/05 11:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DAVIDinVA:
I fear for democracy when marches like this are banned. How sad that the only Christian, Jewish and Moslem leaders in the Middle East can get together is to attack another group.
Democracy?
Democracy skipped that part in which people who pay taxes have the right to determine where is the tax money going!

I am a Christian, and I will not pay taxes to support the homosexual community in any way.
Now they are demanding the right to express, they are costing the country thousands of shekels so they can get proper security, next they will demand money and support for getting married, having children in medical ways (starting with sperm, egg doners ending with cloning - both ways are non Christian and ANTI-Christ and ANTI-Christian, and both ways costs the governments millions) ...

So ya I am with democracy- they want to express themselvs - NOT ON MY COST! NOT WITH MY TAX MONEY!
Posted By: antonius Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/29/05 10:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Lawrence:
The purpose of so called Gay Pride is not to demonstrate that we are all sinners in need of God's mercy, but rather to proclaim that acts which God has condemned as an abomination are perfectly acceptable.
EXACTLY RIGHT !!!!

antonius
Posted By: louisix Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/29/05 11:44 AM
There is nothing "gay" about being inclined to acts that are so revolting that they cannot be spoken of publicly without causing feelings of extreme revulsion and nausea. We need to stop using the language of the devil and recognize that the politically correct evolution of sexual perversion to sexual deviancy to sexual preference to sexual orientation is a lie of the "father-of-lies." Souls are at stake, not the least of which are those propagating the lies who need to be told so in no uncertain terms.

Let us consider the case of Matthew Shepard.

The genesis of hate crimes legislation can be traced to the tragedy of Matthew Shepard. At the very least, the Shepard murder arguably served as one of its primary catalysts. However, neither the Shepard murder, nor that of any other individual, demands "hate crime" legislation, in particular, legislation based on the lie that something called "sexual orientation" exists in an innate final sense with voluminous evidence to the contrary to particularly include pro-homosexual sources. [Reference NARTH, The National Association of Research and Therapy of Homosexuality]. What is interesting is that "sexual orientation" is never defined by its legislative proponents. There are many "sexual orientations" which, like homosexuality, are abnormal, i.e., masochism, sadism, necrophilia, and pedophilia, to name a few. Are these behaviors deserving of unequal treatment under the law in a protective hate crimes sense similar to homosexuality? Do the murders of masochists, sadists, necrophiliacs, and pedophiliacs demand more punishment than that of a member of our family because the former are hate crimes and the latter is not? Is this "equal justice under the law," which was a founding tenet of this country? The suggestion is insane, but insanity has the USA in a death grip in order that vice be made a virtue. Legislators proposing such skewed laws ought to be ashamed of themselves. They open the country to embarrassing ridicule for nothing other than acquiescing to the demands of the pro-sodomite agenda. Is this what our Armed Forces fought and died for since our country was founded, a freedom too far, a freedom confused with license?



Just where does the promotion of aberrant behavior as a civil right end? The entire premise is ludicrous, as anarchy is the inevitable result. Good states are classically defined by their promotion of societal common good as referenced in Aristotle's Politics, and refined in Aquinas' Summa Theologica, which saw the need for a unity, not separation, of Church and state for a "good" state to exist, i.e., the Church must be a necessary moral beacon for the state. How can the legitimization of behavior that is so filthy it cannot be described without conveying the most revolting feelings be considered "tending toward the common good"? The pro-sodomy lobby takes advantage of this very revulsion for homosexual acts, knowing full well that many individuals do not have the stomach for rightly describing them publicly.

This is the consequence of conceding the field to militant homosexual advocates who politically bastardize the language. They tell us that sodomy is "gay," and that "sexual perversion" somehow evolved to "sexual deviance," then to "sexual preference," and finally to "sexual orientation" - an evolution necessary to anesthetize the public as to what is really going on. The final "evolved" state, "sexual orientation," has been proven to be a lie many times over, as previously addressed. Even if there were a "gay" gene, does that make the aberrant behavior of homosexuality any less so? There have been genetic arguments made for alcoholism, adultery (promiscuity) and serial killing. Certainly, no one would argue for the acceptability of such ruinous behavior just because it is "in our genes."

The real tragedy of the discussion of Matthew Shepard's death is the absence of human reason illumined by faith and consciously motivated by the desire to do the will of God.

An example of the lunacy surrounding the Shepard case is Katie Couric of NBC blaming Focus on the Family and the Family Research Council for the Shepard murder.

This is patently ridiculous and, as a Roman Catholic, I strongly protest the inference by a representative of NBC news that those who genuinely love individuals inclined to homosexual acts by telling them the truth of the well documented physical, psychologiical, and especially spiritual ruin associated with their lifestyles are the reason for their problems.

Matthew Shepard's death was horrible because he was a human being indistinguishable from other human beings whose life was snuffed out because a Commandment of God was violated. He joins a group of individuals who have met brutal death as a prelude to meeting their Maker. At least Shepard's death is recognized as punishable by law. Infants at the moment of birth in this country currently have no such protection. Their lives are brutally terminated by the puncturing of the back of their skulls by scissors while they hang kicking almost totally out of the womb, and the subsequent sucking out of their brains while their lifeless little bodies go limp. And that's the "law" in the United States of America, according to an activist judiciary who is allowed to consistently usurp its constitutional authority by most recently overturning the Partial Birth Abortion ban. Does it not strike the country as hypocritical that senators like John Kerry and Ted Kennedy are mute when it comes to the hate involved in the brutal killing of innocents in what should be their safest place of refuge, their mothers' wombs?

The real tragedy of Matthew Shepard's death is that it is somehow elevated to a higher plane whereby the lifestyle of the individual carries a higher precedence than the intrinsic worth of the individual himself as a creation of the Almighty. We do not need to search for the reasons for this crusade. They are well known and the modus-operandi of a group of people who will use anything, any individual, to suit their agenda which is the forced acceptance of sexual deviancy as normal upon society as a whole.

I would ask this group to please explain to me how Matthew Shepard's death differs from that of any number of similar brutal deaths occurring in the world to include partial birth infanticide? I would ask this group how Matthew Shepard's death differs from that of a Wisconsin priest whose throat was slashed from ear to ear - the priest having the courage to speak out against the hedonism engulfing the world in a new dark age to include, in particular, sexual deviancy. I would ask this group why equal treatment under the law is being perverted by raising the gravity of Shepard's death to insinuate that, somehow, his is "especially tragic" because of the lifestyle that he lived. How is it that his death is singled out, or for that matter, any death singled out as being a greater cause for concern than someone else's? Hate of some sort has to be involved in practically every murder, or any crime, for that matter. There is nothing unique about Shepard's case in that regard. What is unique is the call for greater penalties in his case.

Should a person who kills an alcoholic be seen as deserving of a greater sentence because of the lifestyle his victim led? No. Not in a rational world that values life from conception to natural death. Aha, but that's the rub, isn't it?

People of faith and reason must never lose sight of the fact that the truth cannot be compromised. If an alcoholic was brutally murdered, the act would be condemned. There would not be a cry for the promotion of alcoholism, however, because it is recognized that such behavior is destructive. There is absolutely no difference between this and the Shepard situation. Except, that is, in the minds of those who would have us believe that being normal is abnormal, and vice-versa, e.g., the demonization of something called heterosexism, which is a threat to the acceptance of sodomy as a civil right in an affirmative action sense.

I do not believe the family and friends of Matthew Shepard have different feelings than those of serial killing victims. We are created equal in the eyes of God, the soul being the great "equalizer", that which distinguishes man from the animals.

What is different, sadly, is the exploitation of Shepard's death by those who would trash the Constitution of this country and coerce a populace into accepting activities which are held in anathema by their faith, and contrary to right reason, i.e., common sense. Many "clergy", and I use that term loosely, blame the Church for creating an atmosphere of hostility which led to Shepard's death. They forget the very reason for their existence and that of the Church - to caution mankind that there is a greater death to be feared than natural. The supernatural is totally ignored. What they fail to see is that the people who love individuals inclined to homosexual acts the most are those who are telling them the truth about their lifestyle, about a death far more final than anything of this world. They intentionally confuse hate for the sin with the sinner, an absolute prerequisite for those seeking to further the sodomite agenda.

Authentic pastoral care identifies the causes of confusion regarding Church teachings. One is a new exegesis of Sacred Scripture which claims that Jesus has nothing to say on the subject of homosexuality, or that He somehow approves of it, or that all of Scripture's moral injunctions are so culture-bound that they are no longer applicable to contemporary life. These views are gravely erroneous. They ignore the fact that the world in which the New Testament was written was already quite diverse from the situation in which the Sacred Scriptures of the Hebrew People had been written or compiled.

For Christians, Jesus is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, another concept not directly mentioned in Sacred Scripture but still fully taught if one examines the underlying evidence. If Jesus is God, if Christians believe in a Triune God of Creation, Redemption, and Sanctification, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, three Persons in ONE God, than how can it be said that "Jesus never said anything about homosexuality" given that Sacred Scripture is the "inspired Word of God?" Moreover, the Bible itself records that much of what Jesus said was never written down. Jesus Himself wrote nothing. What we find in the Bible is the direction to hold fast to the teaching and Sacred Tradition of the Church which He founded upon the Rock that is Peter, "the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth." Above all, Jesus came to fulfill the old law, in particular, its moral force, not to abolish it. In doing so He would have obeyed the Fourth Commandment "Honor thy Father and thy Mother." One honors their parents by first and foremost obeying them, in particular, in light of the consequences to the "cities of the plain" in Genesis 19 commanded by the ONE TRIUNE God, as referenced in New Testament Jude.

What should be noticed is that there is a clear consistency within the Scriptures themselves on the moral issue of homosexual behavior. The Church's doctrine regarding this issue is thus based, not on isolated phrases for specious theological argument, but on the solid foundation of a constant Biblical testimony.

Scripture is very clear on the teaching against homosexuality. An eschatological perspective is developed by St. Paul when, in 1 Cor 6:9, he lists those who behave in a homosexual fashion among those who shall not enter the Kingdom of God. Saint Paul is distinguishing the importance of supernatural death over natural death, the former having eternal consequences as opposed to the latter.

In Romans 1:18-32, still building on the moral traditions of his forebears, but in the new context of the confrontation between Christianity and the pagan society of his day, Paul specifically addresses the sodomite condition with its dire consequences as an example of the blindness which has overcome mankind. Instead of the original harmony between Creator and creatures, the acute distortion of idolatry, in particular the worship of the "god-in-the-mirror", has led to all kinds of moral aberrations. Homosexual relations are a function of the resulting disharmony due to the work of the devil, who prowls the world like a raging lion seeking the ruin of souls. Finally, in 1 Timothy 1, in full continuity with the Biblical position, Paul singles out those who spread wrong doctrine and in v. 10 explicitly names as sinners those who engage in homosexual acts. The Church, obedient to the Lord who founded her and gave to her the sacramental life, celebrates the divine plan of the loving and life-giving union of men and women in the sacrament of marriage, the latter, procreation, being the primary purpose of marriage since man is procreating to populate Heaven in accord with God's plan at creation, not just for survival of the species. It is only in the marital relationship that the use of the sexual faculty can be morally good. A person engaging in homosexual behavior therefore acts immorally. In particular, this immorality is magnified by the oxymoronic contention that sodomites can be married, which is blasphemous, in complete ignorance of the natural law of God, which is a participation in His divine eternal law.

Nevertheless, increasing numbers of people today, even within the Church, are bringing enormous pressure to bear on the Church to accept the sodomite condition as though it were not disordered and to condone homosexual activity. Those within the Church who argue in this fashion often have close ties with those with similar views outside it. These latter groups are guided by a vision opposed to the truth about the human person, which is fully disclosed in the mystery of Christ. They reflect, even if not entirely consciously, a materialistic ideology which denies the transcendent nature of the human person as well as the supernatural vocation of every individual. This is the root of the exploitation of Matthew Shepard's death on the part of militant sodomite activists.

To respect the dignity of those inclined to homosexual acts refers to an ontological dignity resulting from man being made in God's Image and Likeness, not a moral dignity having priority, which is a function of man knowing right from wrong, to which those inclined to sodomitic acts are NOT deserving of respect but rather revulsion.

The real tragedy of Wyoming's Matthew Shepard is the hypocrisy of those who lament his early brutal death but forget the equally unnecessary brutal deaths of a generation of young people from a disease, AIDS, which has had a known cure for some time - obedience to the natural law of God rooted in the Decalogue knowable through reason not just revelation. A cure which is ignored by the disciples of diversity, an umbrella which covers any and all forms of freedom for the totally autonomous unencumbered self, i.e., a freedom which is confused with license.



Thus, the evil that individuals inclined to homosexual acts are doing to themselves goes unquestioned by those calling for hate crimes legislation. This should come as no surprise because the former spokesman for the pro-sodomite Human Rights Campaign, David Smith, now works for Ted Kennedy. Smith's concerns are more related to demanding that society make him comfortable with his vice under force of law following sodomite Svend Robinson's Canadian example. A rational society is not obliged to accommodate Smith, Robinson and their ilk, a truth that needs to be made crystal clear to our legislators at all levels of government. Our response to groups like the Human Rights Campaign, and their executive, legislative,and judical facilitators, should be that



We do not recognize the legitimacy of your promotion of proven changeable, aberrant behavior in the name of "civil rights," which apply solely to innate, immutable characteristics such as ethnicity and skin color - or constitutionally protected religious freedoms. We do this to prevent anarchy, which is the inevitable result of your selfish demands for "special rights" to accommodate vice. We do this for eternity's sake in the light of the marriage, not divorce, of faith and reason, which is something that Constitution guarantees that we can do. We especially do this in formal recognition that all man-made laws are subsidiary to God's for man's natural well-being leading ultimately to his final supernatural salvific end.
Posted By: louisix Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/29/05 12:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by antonius:
Quote
Originally posted by Lawrence:
[b] The purpose of so called Gay Pride is not to demonstrate that we are all sinners in need of God's mercy, but rather to proclaim that acts which God has condemned as an abomination are perfectly acceptable.
EXACTLY RIGHT !!!!

antonius [/b]
Thus I'm in agreement with Antonius and Lawrence, who are in agreement with Holy Mother Church.
Posted By: Carson Daniel Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/29/05 12:50 PM
Friends,

I do live in a large city. I have had the misfortune of having to see some of the gay pride parades that go on in Chicago. In fact the news usually carries some of it. I applaud Incognitus for being able to close his eyes more quickly than I can and apparently he's able to not be driving near the parade when it was going on. I've seen the disgusting behavior, or at least a glimpse of it, that Holy Name Cathedral must tolerate each year as the parade goes past it.

Taking pride in the behavior I've seen in those parades would get the rest of us put in jail if we expressed such things in public. I believe that it is impossible for a Christian to defend such actions. At the same time the existence of such things as these parades simply shows again that this is not a Christian country.

Now, what to do. If we do not live in a Christian country and we can get arrested for expressing Christian beliefs as was demonstrated once again in Philadelphia only a few months ago what option is there?

First, once we realize that public displays of Christianity are not protected in this country we are then faced with two options. A. Curl up in the corner and die, as we have been doing. B. Stand up, get arrested if need be, and proclaim our positions.

Second, How might we do that? Street corner preaching? Billboards? TV? Radio? Though I find them anoying, Parades?

Eli,

I spent several minutes trying to access the link provided. Without having to pay some fee for it I could not access it. I suspect that I'm better off having not been able to. Am I correct?

Dan L
Posted By: Carson Daniel Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/29/05 01:02 PM
StLouisix,

Was that your lengthy article or someone elses. If it was someone elses would you give them credit, please? If it was yours it was excellent, at least what I've read so far. It is rather long, though.

I'm not sure if you named the set of stupid laws to which you refer or not. I think you are referring mostly to the so called "hate crime" laws which are nonsensical in the extreme and rather damaging to freedom. I find it quite troubling that they haven't all been reversed by the Supreme Court. For that matter if the legislators are going to single out a few people against whom hate crimes can be committed many of which are just perversions of decency why not make a hate crime law against killing babies?

Christians turned a perverse world upside down nearly 2,000 years ago. Let us pray that we have the courage to do it again.

Dan L
Posted By: louisix Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/29/05 01:14 PM
That was my article.
Posted By: Carson Daniel Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/29/05 01:19 PM
You are an excellent writer. Have you published this or do you intend to? Are you a journalist by training?

I'll comment on the contents later when I've time to finish the article.

Dan L
Posted By: louisix Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 06/29/05 01:27 PM
Thank you for your kind words. I'm a Catholic member of the research faculty of Penn State doing mathematical and acoustical research. My first love is philosophy. Just finished an MA program with Holy Apostles College and Seminary in Cromwell, CT via distance ed. And yes, I believe that piece has been published, though I can't recall exactly where. I have articles for various Catholic websites around the country and some overseas to include Fidelity Magazine in Australia.
Posted By: incognitus Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 07/01/05 06:50 AM
"we can get arrested for expressing Christian beliefs as was demonstrated once again in Philadelphia"

I think I missed this - can someone tell me what happened in Philadelphia?

I haven't in the least gone out of my way to avoid those parades or close my eyes to them - they simply haven't intruded upon my concentration and, to the best of my knowledge and memory, I've never so much as caught a glimpse of one.

Incognitus
Posted By: Bernardo Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 07/01/05 04:15 PM
Certainly we are now ruled by a minorities authoritarism.

These gay parades are an abomination, and these people are not tolerant nor peaceful at all. Last saturday I believed that such "parade" was over and went with a couple of friends to take a beer to a bar that is near downtown Mexico City. That zone used to be the classic touristical zone, full of pubs, cafes, theaters, etc., today it has become a refuge for homosexuals... well, we found a big group of these persons (a mob I'd rather say) and gathered around my car, started kicking it, broke the windows of the car, etc...

I would like to say that they were an exception, but every year gay parades become more violent against heterosexual people.

And what I believe is the worst part is that they do not need a special permit for making these kind of parades, they just inform the City's authorities and there you go. I we, Catholics, want to do a public procession in the street, we need a special authorization from the federal Secretary of State because a Catholic procession would "offend" the other minority religions... mad gimme a break!!

Isn't it ironic that in a country that has a population of 85 million Catholics (85% of our population) we can not have a procession?? Where's freedom then? confused

Oh well, think I'd better get back to find some band aids for my car... and should confess about all that I thought about those... whatever.

God bless
Posted By: eli Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 07/02/05 02:59 PM
huummm

Just a wild thought:
Imagin this: Someone with guts, like myself smile , having a black flag with a golden logo saying "Gay-Day, Dark-Day" on his window! ... well democracy aint it? this is a silent protest!
BUT I BET the Times, CNN, BBC and other "friends" will call this person "Natzi" - "Closed" - "Antihuman" etc.


---
Dan,
What link?
and if your payingn - keep out smile my policy says: "free is good"
Posted By: Carson Daniel Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 07/02/05 03:12 PM
Eli,

It wasn't your link at all. My computer has been infested with porn purveyors and try as I might I can't get rid of them. I've used Norton, Adaware, Spybot over and over. They slow down my computer. Put porn pop ups and make all sorts of words into links to porn. Besides sending my computer to the store to get it cleaned out I don't know what to do.

Dan L
Posted By: Scandinavian Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 07/13/05 01:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Bernardo:
I would like to say that they were an exception, but every year gay parades become more violent against heterosexual people.
Those violent homosexuals, eyh? :rolleyes:

Quote
More than 10,000 people took part in the fourth annual Jerusalem Pride Parade, Love Without Borders, on July 1.

The event went ahead despite initial attempts by the Jerusalem Municipality to block the march as "insensitive to the sensibilities of a large part of the city's residents." But after a Supreme Court ruling on a petition from former NIF grantee Jerusalem Open House, the Municipality was compelled to let the event go ahead and even assist in funding.

However, the event was marred by an ultra-Orthodox protestor who stabbed three participants - one received medium injuries and two were lightly hurt. The incident generated enormous condemnation throughout Israel and a major protest vigil was organized the following Tuesday at the site of the stabbing by gay groups and human rights activists.

NIF News 7/8/05
New Israel Fund [news@nif.org]
Posted By: Zenovia Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 07/14/05 03:54 AM
Dear Scandinavian,

I recall many years ago hearing about a church that was so threatened by the homosexuals that the members were frightened to leave. Of course nothing was mentioned in the papers or on TV of that incident.

But frankly none of this should be surprising. I recall twenty plus years ago, a certain Evangelical Doctor of Theology, mentioning what was going on with the courts, and the pressure brought on by these 'gay' groups in order to legalize homosexual marriage.

One person just happened more recently to mention their agenda. They were to concentrate in the smaller states where they would have more power since the U.S. Senate seats are equal for all states.

They have managed to take over Vermont, much to the chagrin of the original inhabitants, and have imposed laws contrary to what those people wanted. They are now concentrating on other states with small populations such as Montana, etc.

Okay, that is what they want. Now if I recall correctly, in ancient Corinth women were actually told to walk around half naked in order to entice the men. They were fearful that the population would eventually cease to exist. Somehow the pagans preferred boys. Is this what the 'gay' agenda is? To make the world cease to exist?

Then came Rome. They decided everything Greek was preferable and paid enormous sums for 'pretty' young boys. Amazing what happens when a society becomes 'demonic'. These were the same people that cheered at the sacrifices in the coliseum, after all showing compassion was simply not 'politically' correct.

My concern, and the concern of all Christians has always been that if it became socially acceptable, as it has, then when young boys are at a certain age where their sexuality as a man is not fully developed, can they be swayed. I guess we can say for sure now that our concerns were real. What exists today was unheard of 100 plus years ago, simply because it would never, never enter a boy's mind.

Today the opposite exists. Homosexuality is being imposed in their developing eleven, twelve and thirteen year old minds through our schools, media, etc. But then again, just another sign of how far from God we are.

Zenovia
Posted By: incognitus Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 07/14/05 06:30 AM
Zenovia remembers "I recall many years ago hearing about a church that was so threatened by the homosexuals that the members were frightened to leave."

How's that again?

I can readily understand that people might be afraid to attend a church (or other organization) under the described conditions, but why would they be afraid NOT to attend?

Incognitus
Posted By: Alice Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 07/14/05 11:45 AM
Perhaps Zenovia means that there was a gay demonstration outside or something like that? confused

Surely you have heard of the audacious interrruptions of Mass at St. Patrick's Cathedral or the lewd and MOCKING shows put on on those sacred steps. If not, ask Fr. Benedict Groeschel.

What a person chooses to do is his own business, and I am not at all intolerant of anybody. Whoever knows me personally knows that. I am very 'cool', 'with it' and very loving towards all....

However, in my humble opinion, I think that we should stop empowering this agenda and allowing it to even be somewhat politically incorrect to speak up against it (the agenda- NOT the individuals) within conservative Christian venues.

Anyone with children or grandchildren will know what I am talking about...health classes where gay encounters are taught in detail, first grade reading books of 'my two mommies/or daddies', etc.

Alice, who thinks that enough is really getting to be enough already. frown
Posted By: Marian Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 07/14/05 12:18 PM
I still try to understand why in the USA there is this concept of polical corectness.
I do believe that we MUST speak very aloud against these abominations. Otherwise we will be judged also for our cowerdness, silence.
We have to speak more, without fear, about the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, the second Divine person of the Most Holy Trinity.
Let us remember of Lot, you know the whole story.

Instead paying attention to this odd agenda, let us ask our souls why there is needed a whole G8 summit regarding the poverty, why the Muslim world behaves so, why is this huge difference between USA, EU and Africa, and so on. I mean the real causes and reasons.

As Christians, everyone in her or his place, we must create an agenda from the Christian viewpoint.
My sisters and brothers, we live so times! May God have mercy upon our souls.

Indeed, only the mercy of God...
I hope my English is understood.

In Christ, with love for all of you, brotherly, Marian
Posted By: Pani Rose Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 07/14/05 12:34 PM
Marion your English is always understood. You do a really good job of getting your point across. BRAVO!
Posted By: Carson Daniel Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 07/14/05 01:33 PM
BTW I did get my computer fixed and it didn't cost me anything. Some have suggested that what I need isd a Macintosh or Linux, because PC's are prone to virus infestation. Perhaps so.

On the subject at hand. If a person wishes to continue on a path to hell I believe it is incumbant upon us to try to convince the person to follow Christ instead. If that doesn't work we simply leave them to their own devices. Nevertheless, they don't have to practice their sin on the public streets which I pay for. We arrest Prostitutes and their customers. Why do we pay gays to act out their immorality on our public streets? Why must Churches tolerate the lewd behavior of gay activists on the steps of their Churches?

Dan L
Dear Daniel,

Linux is great, but is a Greek Computer. Apple Macintoshes are now Unix powered but have a user-friendly interface, so you would be better of going that way. I got frustrated with WIndows quite some time ago and now use Apple Macintosh machines exclusively and have never been infected with a virus or syware.

If a parade is going to have acts that would get an R or NC-17 rating in a movie, it should not be allowed, so I have no problem with banning such a thing, based on the history of these celebrating pride events. Many Church Fathers have called pride the gateway sin to all others.

In Christ,
Deacon Nikolai
Posted By: incognitus Re: Jerusalem bans gay pride parade - 07/14/05 10:40 PM
Dear Alice, yes I am vaguely aware of such annoying goings-on in front of Saint Patrick's Cathedral. There are laws against interfering with a religious service, so the question in my mind would be: are the police declining to enforce the law, or is the archdiocese of New York declining to ask the police to enforce the law?

Causing any sort of nuisance (other than, say, the crowds which accompany holiday events or the crowds that go Xmas-shopping) in front of the cathedral to the extent that the worshippers are unable to go in and out freely is certainly interfering with a religious service. I'm reasonably certain that the gays have the right of freedom of assembly in New York, so again it is no more than right to insist that Catholics, Greek Orthodox, Orthodox Jews or any other law-abiding religious community must have the same right.

By the way - on a totally different (and far more edifying) topic - have you ever visited Saint Patrick's Old Cathedral? It's near Houston Street and Broadway, or something like that. Anyway, it's of considerable historical interest in the development of the American concept of freedom of religion; there are some worthwhile tablets from the state and from some historical societies recording events that occurred there in that connection. And yes, it is still very much a functioning church.

Incognitus
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