I just saw this video from Michael Lofton:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPMlQmSYukM&ab_channel=Reason%26Theology



Pray for Fr. Hilarion.

Disappointed, but, I am going to pray for him. I saw the same video.

Christ is in our midst!!

The Desert Fathers collection that I have has this quote. "Marvell not when you see a person fall to the Enemy's attacks. Rather marvel at one who is able to escape the jaws of the Enemy."

I can't understand why someone would go from Christianity to Islam. Denying the divinity of Christ, even denying the Crucifixion itself...I can't imagine a worse blasphemy than to claim Jesus never died on the cross.

By the way, J Michael, this is "In His Love" from "that other forum" (which will go unnamed). Good to see you! Hope you're doing well.

This is a very important point that you raise.

Recently, I came across a fellow in a coffee shop with whom we struck up a conversation on religion. We talked for . . . five hours and didn't notice that it was dark outside.

He is an engineer and a former Irish Catholic who is on his way to becoming an Orthodox Jews. His associate is Greek Orthodox and she has been trying everything to get him not to. But to no avail. It was he who raised the issue of Holy Communion as a kind of "cannibalism" and made several other points that were easy enough to counter. It became clear to me that he was only looking for excuses or justifications to leave Christianity.

We met a couple of more times at that shop and his associate contacted me to tell me beforehand that her friend was warned to "watch out for my Christian tricks." This was because, according to his mentors, there is "nothing more meritorious for a Christian than to thwart one of their own from leaving to enter another religion."

Personally, I believe every person has their own free will and can do and believe as they feel they must. My sole purpose in continuing those discussions, as it is now, was to explain in perhaps a clearer way certain issues that my new friend was perhaps misrepresenting for whatever reason. He is living a very full prayer life, truth be told, and is spending much time reading the works of Jewish teachers and mystics.

We talk about Jewish philosophy as well as the teachings of great Jewish Tzaddicks like the Righteous Rabbi Nachman.

When someone leaves the Christian fold, I believe we must look to ourselves to find possible reasons why this happens, in other words, are there things that occur within Churches or communities that serve as "push factors" or is it truly that there are individuals (the ex-Catholic comedian Bill Maher comes to mind) who never really delve very deeply into the heart of Christianity and so, as they coast along, seemingly bored with a routine religious existence, they look for what is already around them within the Church and having seen it elsewhere, leave to drink deeply of the spiritual waters they find there? I think there are all kinds of issues - there is a lot of "spaghetti on the wall" in this regard.

Christ is in our midst!!


Alex,

I think you have found a very profound reason. I knew a man who was Anglo-Catholic who went off years ago to become a Buddhist monk. He found Christianity to be deficient. But maybe he never delved deeply enough to find Christian sources for meditation. I know of many people who delved into the New Age in the past few decades because they thought that orthodox Christianity was lacking, though none knew of our own sources.

People are searching and we seem to have few people who can lead them to our rich traditions of meditation and spiritual direction, or at least to send them to those who have greater experience.

Bob

All of the above contain profound observations. However, this case is especially perplexing in that Fr. Heagy was a priest and monastic- for years. One would think that a trained cleric would be a person who "delved into the heart of Christianity."......wouldn't we?

Equally perplexing is the fact that, by his own admission, he considered himself- for some time- a Muslim while being a priest...... How does the human mind and conscience pull that off?

I don't know, maybe I am just over- perplexed, but there seems to be more going on here than an individual on a spiritual pilgrimage......

Pretty much what I was going to say, but you beat me to it!

One thing that occurred to me that I might add is that a number of "modern" elders have bemoaned the shortage of....elders/spiritual fathers in the eastern Churches, especially in English speaking countries. While we would all benefit from having a true elder as a spiritual father/confessor, it seems to me that priests, especially, might be in even greater need of them, even more so, those priests who appear to be deeply spiritually conflicted and troubled. Just my 2-cents' worth.

J Michael wrote:

"One thing that occurred to me that I might add is that a number of "modern" elders have bemoaned the shortage of....elders/spiritual fathers in the eastern Churches, especially in English speaking countries. While we would all benefit from having a true elder as a spiritual father/confessor, it seems to me that priests, especially, might be in even greater need of them, even more so, those priests who appear to be deeply spiritually conflicted and troubled. Just my 2-cents' worth."

Your thoughts and recommendation are spot on.

Here is a little different take on the whole affair. It is by a writer familiar with Fr. Heady and a BC: I thought it might add a different insight into the topic

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/jappersandjanglers/2023/02/apostasy-scandal-and-a-road-well-trod/

Interesting article--Thanks for linking it!

With respect to the issue of priests, they too can leave the Church and Christ and the priesthood does not protect them against doubts and struggles.

What if a man became a priest for the wrong reason? There was a time when the role of the priest was so emphasized that laity appeared to be on the periphery of committed Christian life.

A man or woman who wanted a deeper commitment thought they would have it by entering monastic life or by entering the clerical state.

As someone who once applied, and was accepted, to a seminary, I know now that I wasn't really "cut out" for the specific role of being a priest - although I always think about it and sometimes am sad I didn't.

I believed that the best way to live a committed Christian life was to be a priest. Is that a good reason? I'm asking, not telling.

Hey, J.Michael and Hutsul - over here, I'm asking you a question!

And if someone were to be a priest for the wrong reason and later became half-hearted about it - is it conceivable they would actually have a weak commitment to the Church and to Christ?

Weak enough to leave - even leave the faith?

If you guys are finished with your kaffee klatch over there, give some thought to this and let us know!

Alex

Dear Bob,

You raise so many important points with your observations!

I personally think that the religious practice of, I will say my own parish, is really wanting. The emphasis, when it comes to the Great Fast, is precisely that - abstaining from food. In other words - diet.

Isn't fasting to be extended to curbing sinfulness? To controlling one's passions and being more charitable? To loving others? (I love everyone - especially Fr Deacon and Doctor AJK - I'd never know when I would one day require his medical services, so I shudder to be on his wrong side here . . .).

But the art of prayer. Now that's where the crux of the matter lies, does it not? My parish sermons are really wonderful and informative. I know all about what I should be doing as a Christian EXCEPT for how to really pray and meditate. And without being connected to the means of Grace - how may I hope to do what I know I should? Every single ex-Catholic and ex-Orthodox I come across are leading great prayer lives in their new faith communities. What happened that they didn't pray as Christians?!

And HOW can we fix that? (I hope J. Michael and Hutsul can spare a moment to respond . . .)

By my count, you seem to be asking us several questions, Alex, not simply "...a question". I'll do my best, though given the lateness of the hour, it might not be very good.

"I believed that the best way to live a committed Christian life was to be a priest. Is that a good reason?" I don't know. If it was the ONLY reason, depending on your level of commitment to Christ Himself, it might be good enough. But...I don't know.

"And if someone were to be a priest for the wrong reason and later became half-hearted about it - is it conceivable they would actually have a weak commitment to the Church and to Christ?" It certainly is. And the commitment may just have been weak right from the get go. But as I've never been or really wanted to be a priest, I couldn't say for sure.

"Weak enough to leave - even leave the faith?" Yup, especially if there are also other underlying psychological/spiritual instabilities.

"And HOW can we fix that?" Ahh....I wish I knew. It sounds almost trite to say "better catechesis", right from the moment of baptism, but I'm sure that's one part of the answer. Maybe actively and aggressively promoting and facilitating monasticism, at least for Eastern Rite Catholics, in this country. Whatever happened to the "requirement" (maybe it was just tradition--I'm not well enough catechized to know for sure) that bishops come from the ranks of the monasteries? But, if there are no or very few monasteries....Hmm...A conundrum. And...well...to honest, more than that at this hour, I don't know.

Sorry I couldn't be of greater help. Maybe things will be clearer tomorrow.

In Christ,
Jeff

Well, here's the thing Alex, My comments were in relation to the topic at hand. Namely,  a fairly known Eastern Catholic priest renounced his Christianity in favor of Islam. That was the post. I did not explore its' far reaching symbolism as you have, and it is to your credit that you see a larger picture.

Of course we are all on spiritual journeys, lay persons and priests too. Those journeys take us down many paths, sometimes prompting our inner GPS to sound the alarm. However, my point was to address what we know of this particular situation. My present take on this particular situation is that it is neither typical, nor does it deserve to be elevated to a symbol of spiritual longing and quest.

Here's why......Our inner struggles, our deep questioning and thirst for  meaning are deeply personal. They are between us, God, and if we are fortunate, a confessor. When they become media events, I begin to wonder. When they are self-orchestrated media events, the caution flag really goes up.

There is history of Social Media involved in this. For me, that taints any spiritual aspects.

Christ is in our midst!!


Dear Alex,

You are spot on in your observation about the Great Fast. Dietary fasting is just the first step; only the first step. St. John Chrysostom advises us to fast from "backbiting the brethren." In other words, stop gossiping and making negative statements about those around you. Going farther, let's take the act of Forgiveness Sunday and make it a daily Lenten practice: make it a practice to be the first to forgive, even when we are the one wronged. How about the idea of "positive fasting"? In other words, turn off the TV and make the hour of evening news into a Holy Hour where we read Scripture or prayers from one of the many services for that hour--and make it a family practice; or just sit in God's Presence for that hour in silence and let Him speak to your soul. How about an hour with the Jesus Prayer?

The is a great book entitled "Beginning to Pray," by Metropolitan Anthony (Bloom), written decades ago but still in print on Amazon. It comes from his many radio sermons during the period of WW2. I recommend it as second to none because it is written for the layman, the beginner. As St. Paisius Velichkovsky did when he wanted to go deeper into the monastic life but could find no elders to show the way, we ought to go to the books that have been written and left to us. There is a second by this same Metropolitan entitled "Courage to Pray"--another excellent book. It may be out of print; my copy is decades old.

"Earthern Vessels," by Father Gabriel Bunge, once Eastern Catholic, now Schema Archimandrite Gabriel, is another good book for Great Lent.

The point of Great Lent, IMHO, is to stop the frenetic activity that distracts us daily from what we are supposed to be doing with our immortal souls. While we, as lay people, need to be involved in the world, we also need to remember that this is not all we were created to do or to be. That's what Great Lent is about--getting off the treadmill of our lives for a moment and to recharge our spiritual batteries with prayer, fasting (both positive and negative), and almsgiving (which also means "random acts of kindness).

We also need to remember that we are called to be the leaven in our parishes, our workplaces, and the broader community in which we live. We need to be recognized as being different in how we speak, think, and act. And we cannot do that if we forget to go to our sources to see where we are sliding away from who we are meant to be and Who we belong to.

Christ is in our midst!!

This is now far off topic. I am moving it to Town Hall.

Bob
Moderator

These are all deeply spiritual and important reflections! If we all, I believe, just meditated on the above three posts, Lent would be a real spiritual Spring!

There is a restlessness in my life owing to the fact that I have relatives in Ukraine who are now refugees. I am in touch with them frequently and send them what I can. I have no idea what they are going through and can't imagine it. Intercessory prayer for them and all the victims of that senseless war of aggression is what informs my Lent. Being close to the Cross and to Christ on the Cross brings me peace, as does being near our Mother of Sorrows with the Seven Swords piercing her soul.

Meditation on the Wounds of Christ too is vital for us all. By His Stripes, we are healed.

And as was said, having a Confessor is great but, failing that, reading the wisdom of Elders past, including St Paisius Velichkovsky and the Desert Fathers can serve as our gudes.

Blessed New Hieromartyr Basil Velichkovsky, Redemptorist, who died and is enshrined in Winnipeg, Canada, was the direct descenndant of St Paisius, FYI.

I came across of another orthodox priest of ROCOR in Tasmania, Australia who converted to Islam recently. Fr David Gould.

📸 Look at this post on Facebook

Bold added by me for emphasis. This point here is certainly worth considering. Social Media is built (coded) from the ground up to be addictive, to cause conflict, strife, division, confusion, disillusionment, depression, and a constant restlessness (rotten fruit of the enemy). I speak this not only from reading and researching it, but because I have been burned by it myself. Nearly 2 years or perhaps more off of social media and I still go through moments of desolation because I miss the instant "you have likes and comments." That dopamine hit from self-validation of menial life events seems silly logically, but I still feel it sometimes. The way his announcement was announced, by him and on social media, is very concerning because he certainly knows that the weight of being a Priest of the Church saying these things could lead to a number of his flock following him to the path of the Sultan and the false prophet. Muslims tend to be very zealously and aggressively evangelical of their beliefs. Social media or not it was folly, but social media disregulates peace to such an extent that I could and am only commenting on his behaviors, but not with complete certainty of his intentions. The fact that he was Priest by practice but seemingly never in belief is also painful but, again, if that is true and not more of the social media trick to stir outrage...even among us. Keep in mind, "They will hate you because they first hated Me." Prayer is certainly the antidote because, despite insider knowledge of this man, that is what we can do and what will work. His final Abbot who "failed" him (he was already looking at God and the Church backwards through the lens of only "me") whom he called a sociopath. I am familiar with him and his Monastery, and have even had the blessing of having spiritual direction as a laymen from one of the Fathers at this Monastery...so again, quite painful. However, the pain is not just ours. He is clearly in distress so yes, pray.

Kyria eleison!
Kyria eleison!
Kyria eleison!

Christ is Born!!

Arbanon,

Happy Birthday!!!

Bob
Moderator

I saw a post on you tube about a. Priest who left Christianity
To become a Muslim could that be the same person

I meet a person he is African American I think he said he was a former pastor now he is the iman at the mosque in Teaneck nj he tried to debate me inside
The Teaneck nj library about why Islam was more correct I just walked away he was more in to debating then a discussion