www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Those terrible 'Latins' - did this actually happen?

Do any of you church history experts know anything about this, and if it is distorted to fit an 'agenda', so to speak? (I'm not pleased either way). Here it is, from an Orthodox web site:

In the difficult days of the Eastern empire, when mighty Rome was striving to bring under her sway the Orthodox Church, a pious elder took up his struggle in solitude near the Zographou Monastery on Mt. Athos. It was his practice to read, several times a day, an akathist to the Mother of God before her icon in his cell. Once, as the word �rejoice� sounded in continual greeting to the Most-holy Theotokos, his �rejoice,� was met by a response from her icon: �And you rejoice as well, o elder of God.� although he became frightened, the voice from the icon quickly continued. �Do not fear, but go quickly to the monastery and tell the abbot and the brethren that the foe is near. Let those who are weak in spirit hide themselves until this temptation passes, but let those who wish a martyr�s crown remain. Hurry.�

The elder immediately left this cell and hurried to the monastery. He had barely entered the gates, when he saw that the icon before which he had just read the akathist in his cell was already at the monastery gate. He fell before the icon in reverent prayer, and then with it appeared before the abbot. The news of the coming danger greatly worried the brethren. The weak hurried to hide in the mountains and chasms, while twenty-six monks, including the rector and the elder who had announced the heavenly instructions, remained in the monastery, locking themselves up in the tower. The Latins quickly appeared and at first attempted by great oratory to convince the monks to unlock the monastery gates and to recognize the pope as the sinless head of the universal Church. They promised in return all of his beneficence and much gold. From the tower, the monks responded �For us, Christ is the head of the Church. We would rather all die than to allow you by use of force to desecrate the sanctity of this place. Crying out � Then die!� the enemy stacked brush about the tower, and set it afire. The flames shot high into the air. The monks, praying for their enemies, blessed the Lord, and peacefully gave up their souls to Him. This occured on October 10, 1276.

The names of these brave passion-bearers are recorded in the Zographou synodicon and in the Bulgarian chronicle of the saints. (See the October 1996 issue of Parish Life.) The miraculous icon which had warned the elder of the coming danger was found amid the ash and ruins, unharmed. It is known as the Akathist Icon, because during the Liturgy, the Bulgarians sing before it the Akathist Hymn.

I truly doubt this at all! If it really happened, then it wasn't from a true representive of the Latin Church. It was probably by some ignorant Roman Catholic people. The same kind of people who sacked Constatinople during the 4th Crusade, which by the way these people were excommunicated from the Pope of Rome for doing that!

And of course the Pope of Rome knows that he is NOT sinless!

So, again, I doubt that the Latin Church would do that.

SPDundas
Deaf Byzantine

From a scholar perspective, I suspect that this is yet another "late" text that is intended to buttress one or another point of view.

It's easy enough to write such texts, claiming one or another miracle.

The ultimate touchstone is: does this text promote the love of God and the love of one's neighbor?

If it doesn't, then it cannot be "of God".

Blessings!

I am sure at some point a group of "Latins" sacked an Eastern monastery in the name of the Pope. Likewise, I am sure at somepoint Tsarist troops burned a "uniat" church in the name of Orthodoxy.

One of the devil's favorite things is to trick you into sin by convincing you that you are doing God's will.

I actually like their music... Samba, Rumba, etc...

Both the Catholic and Orthodox Church belong to the Lord - purchase by his blood - and She would not refer to either in a derogatory way. That alone ear marks this portion of the story as fairy tale.

As to the human substance (the people) who knows - there were horrbile politically motivated abuses on both sides. And although some men claim the church is divided and God has taken sides against one or the other of his children - God and St. Paul both claims it is not divided but will always be One Holy Catholic and Apostolic in His eyes.

The Pope is sinless?? Pope John Paul II goes to confession at least once a week, sometimes more often. He certainly doesn't consider himself to be sinless.

If a group of "Latins" appeared at my front door, and demanded that I recognize the Pope as sinless or be slaughtered, I would opt for martyrdom. And I would be perfectly in conformity with Catholic teaching, and would be a martyr for the Catholic faith.

Also, according to Catholic teaching, the true head of the Catholic Church is Jesus Christ. The Pope is Christ's vicar, and is the Church's visible head. But Christ alone is the true head.

The question that I have is this: do many Orthodox mistakenly believe that the Pope considers himself to be sinless? Is this a widespread misconception?

Anthony

Dear Anthony,

It is sad to say, but there are many widespread misconceptions about Catholicism and the Pope in Orthodoxy. Sometimes the ignorance, whether deliberate or innocent, is truly maddening.

The fact that the Pope INFALLIBLY speaks ex-Cathedra on matters of faith and morals, is not often recognized. Many would rather say, 'and they think that the Pope IS infallible'..(big, big, difference ). That is why this forum, and your question and answers on EWTN's forum are SO necessary. By instructing me (Alice, humble Orthodox lay person) as well as Joe Orthodox, we can instruct and correct others in our faith.

Hopefully, the good intentions a few 'apostles of truth in East/West Ecumenical relations', will spread through the laity and make spiritual unity more possible someday.

If the Holy Spirit wills it, this can happen. The internet is our greatest tool. Prayer, and good will are our greatest assets.

Wishing you every blessing always,
Humbly in our Lord,
Alice

Dear alice:

You may have known this beforehand, but I would like to "sweeten" this deal about Catholic-Orthodox rapprochements.

His Eminence, Archbishop Demetrios, Metropolitan of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, was this year's head of delegation of the Ecumenical Patriarchate to the celebrations of the "Solemnity of Sts. Peter & Paul" in Rome.

In his response to the welcome remarks of His Holiness, Pope John Paul II, Archbishop Demetrios said that:

The full news story at:

http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=38057


AmdG

Alice,

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question. If only more Christians, whether Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox, were as sensible as you are...

Anthony

Dear Alice,

I'd like to second Anthony's comments!

You serve as an example to us and to those ourside of our Churches. You embody the old aphorism that others will know us to be Christians by our love (especially by our love and respect for each other despite canonical boundaries, I think.)

I'm glad that you're here.

Steve

Thank you SO much Steve!

God bless you!

In Christ,
Alice

Dear Alice,

Besides, you are more Catholic in outlook and spirit than many Catholics I know . . .

I mean that as a compliment!

Alex

Dear Friends,

The martyrdom of the 26 Venerable Martyrs of Zographou actually DID happen and other Athonites were also martyred by Catholics and Uniates at the time.

The Emperor at the time proclaimed such a union and the monks' opposition to it was deemed not only anti-Catholic but treacherous as well.

And I don't think there is any reason why Catholics cannot venerate these martyrs either.

Alex

Dear Friends,

One more thing - the word "sinless" here is a bad translation of "infallible" or "one who cannot err."

Let us also remember that Catholics also venerate those killed by Orthodox e.g. St Josaphat of Polotsk, St Andrew Bobola SJ and others.

Why is it when we hear of Orthodox martyrs killed by Catholics that we doubt the truth of it?

Do we think Catholics are sinless?

Alex

On a sort of related question:

I have had read some articles about St. Peter the Aleut that say he was a martyr killed by Franciscans in California for his Orthodoxy. I've also read accounts that say the whole thing was a nasty trade dispute and poor Peter was a victim of that.

For my part, I tend to think St. Peter the Aleut was a person of great faith, but that he was killed over a trade dispute. How's that for a compromise? I also tend to think, from what I've read, that there is history to support either interpretation, as well as my own. And, well, history is a subjective thing. And as you know from my handle, I'm a Franciscan. :-)

But I'm curious if any of our Orthodox friends on this forum - particularly our Russian Orthodox friends - can tell me more. I'm sure they have had more reason to know his history in detail.