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Joined: May 2004
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OrthoDixieBoy
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Gordo,

I think that fellow there been imbibing the corn squeezin's!

J-

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John,

You wrote:

Quote
Put very simply: this is the time and the generations when Orthodoxy is being given to the West -- for the first time since the Schism of 1054. This is the generations when the West begins anew to speak Orthodoxy through Western life and culture. Dude, we are the generations of transmission. So, I can’t complain --instead, I can only be grateful, that others care enough to share the Gospel with us. And, as I and other Westerners convert to it anew in Orthodoxy, we shall --by simple virtue of that fact-- embody and build a new Western Orthodoxy. My friend, do you want an American Orthodoxy? Look no further. You are American Orthodoxy. You are one of the first generations of it.


That helps. Particularly the last 4 sentences.

Thanks,

Jason

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Originally Posted by RomanRedneck
Gordo,

I think that fellow there been imbibing the corn squeezin's!

J-


A little too much Mountain Dew!

Gordo

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Here is an interesting quote on "Inculturation" from the Pontifical Biblical Commission and its document The Interpretation of the Bible in the Church:

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While actualization allows the Bible to remain fruitful at different periods, inculturation in a corresponding way looks to the diversity of place: It ensures that the biblical message takes root in a great variety of terrains. This diversity is, to be sure, never total. Every authentic culture is, in fact, in its own way the bearer of universal values established by God.

The theological foundation of inculturation is the conviction of faith that the word of God transcends the cultures in which it has found expression and has the capability of being spread in other cultures, in such a way as to be able to reach all human beings in the cultural context in which they live. This conviction springs from the Bible itself, which, right from the book of Genesis, adopts a universalist stance (Gn. 1:27-28), maintains it subsequently in the blessing promised to all peoples through Abraham and his offspring (Gn. 12:3; 18:18) and confirms it definitively in extending to "all nations" the proclamation of the Christian Gospel (Mt. 28:18-20; Rom. 4:16-17; Eph. 3:6).


http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PBCINTER.htm

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GORDO:

Speaking of Mountain Dew, I didn't know how much caffeine the stuff contained until just the other day. I have a fund raiser coupon booklet for a sandwich shop that allows for a sandwich and a fountain soda of any size. Since I don't drink the stuff and didn't want to leave anything on the table, I've been taking a 32 oz Mountain Dew back for one of the other members of the staff who doesn't drink coffee for almost two weeks now. I noticed him twitching yesterday. When I asked him what was up, he said he'd been wired for almost a week and couldn't sleep. BUT HE'S STILL WILLING TO DRINK THE STUFF. laugh biggrin

BOB

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Bob,

Yes - very, very potent stuff. I have never enjoyed it personally...

"Moutain Dew", BTW, is also an old euphemism popular in Appalachia for moonshine.

Happy B-day!

Gordo

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Jason,

So, you'd prefer this:

http://www.cmt.com/videos/misc/2028...21&sid=24233&eid=128231&did=

Over this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...0&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

My wife loves the My Big Redneck Wedding show on CMT.

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Originally Posted by RomanRedneck
Believe it or not, there are some native (not as in Native American but as in Southern) musical forms that I believe could be adapted to Orthodox worship. ... Some illustrations would be white spirituals (not the lyrics...just the musical form), the fa-so-la tradition and the Sacred Harp tradition.

Jason and all,

Of the range of adaptations I gave, this -- chant, singing -- is an intermediate one and is a good "test case". How important is this to the Southern ethos?

I didn't say it before, but what we're talking about here is really evangelization: proclaiming the orthodox -- Byzantine in this case -- expression of the Gospel to the un-baptized, and to other Christians. It should not have to take form as being Russian, or Greek, or any other ethnicity, but rather be from elements of the indigenous culture that are compatible with the Gospel.

I had heard of the Sacred Harp and just reacquainted myself with it, and I see how it, as one example, could function as you said. Would singing the Troparion etc. to tones/modes based on Sacred Harp melodies really click with you, with the people? Would it be a good vehicle for evangelization by allowing the people to worship through a familiar medium with which they identify rather than one which, even if acceptable at best, is still someone else’s.

This is just one “for instance.” Speculate: what would a Southern Byzantine-orthodoxy liturgy be like.

Dn. Anthony

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Originally Posted by Dr. Eric
Jason,

So, you'd prefer this:

http://www.cmt.com/videos/misc/2028...21&sid=24233&eid=128231&did=

Over this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...0&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

My wife loves the My Big Redneck Wedding show on CMT.


ROFL! That's terrific!

Well, good Doctor, I admit, the Redneck wedding is more "comfortable" to me...the Greek is certainly more "pretty".

But...Redneck is not the same as Southern. There are "rednecks" in Michigan, Indiana, Iowa, Illinois, etc. My personal definition for a redneck is "someone who prefers camouflage to all other prints, who thinks beer really is better than champagne, bathes at least once a year and thinks women with big hair are beautiful beyond words."

Southern culture is descended from the cavaliers and is genteel, refined and "cultured".

Jason

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OrthoDixieBoy
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Dn Anthony:

Quote
Of the range of adaptations I gave, this -- chant, singing -- is an intermediate one and is a good "test case". How important is this to the Southern ethos?


I would say it is VERY important. Music is the poetry of a culture and springs from it's very heart.(That says worlds about modern music, does it not?) Our traditional musical forms have played a tremendous role in shaping who we are...particularly spiritually. It is not unusual for total pagans to sing these songs just for fun...if they are from the south. I've even observed atheistic JEWS sing this stuff.

Quote
I had heard of the Sacred Harp and just reacquainted myself with it, and I see how it, as one example, could function as you said. Would singing the Troparion etc. to tones/modes based on Sacred Harp melodies really click with you, with the people? Would it be a good vehicle for evangelization by allowing the people to worship through a familiar medium with which they identify rather than one which, even if acceptable at best, is still someone else’s.


It would certainly click with me. And I believe it would click with anyone here who is inclined to a more profound form of worship than found in Protestantism. For all the laid-backness of the south, there is a deep contemplative strain that flows through our traditional music conveying a sense of wonder and awe. There are, in every town, groups who get together on a regular basis to learn and sing these songs. It is still a living tradition...frankly, the only thing that has caused it to wane is the tremendous influx of northerners to the south over the past 40 years. But there seems to be a real rebound and attempt to preserve these musical traditions in the past decade or so.

Quote
This is just one “for instance.” Speculate: what would a Southern Byzantine-orthodoxy liturgy be like.


Well, and I say this jokingly, the words of institution are just an apostrophe away from using the word "y'all". "Drink *ye all* of it." biggrin

I would suggest Elizabethan English and the Coverdale Psalter for starters. The KJV is beautiful, but not so good for chanting. Also, perhaps the use of English plain-chant could be used. This is quite traditional in the South as is the "morning-prayer" tradition.

Monasticism even fits the southern ethos. There is a Jerusalem Patriarchate Greek Orthodox monastery in Resaca, GA...just south of Chatanooga...they receive frequent visits from the local Baptists who seem to hold them in high regard and do not feel threatened by them...why? Because the monks are all southern boys! biggrin

As much as I appreciate both Roman and Byzantine vestments...they are just too fancy for us. Something less dazzling would be better...but not along the lines of the garbage you see in some novus ordo parishes...kente stoles...rainbow vestments...BARF! Traditional silk or brocade is fine...just toned down a bit. Hank Williams Jr notwithstanding...we don't all wear sunglasses indoors!

Jason

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Originally Posted by RomanRedneck
Originally Posted by Dr. Eric
Jason,

So, you'd prefer this:

http://www.cmt.com/videos/misc/2028...21&sid=24233&eid=128231&did=

Over this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...0&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

My wife loves the My Big Redneck Wedding show on CMT.


ROFL! That's terrific!

Well, good Doctor, I admit, the Redneck wedding is more "comfortable" to me...the Greek is certainly more "pretty".

But...Redneck is not the same as Southern. There are "rednecks" in Michigan, Indiana, Iowa, Illinois, etc. My personal definition for a redneck is "someone who prefers camouflage to all other prints, who thinks beer really is better than champagne, bathes at least once a year and thinks women with big hair are beautiful beyond words."

Southern culture is descended from the cavaliers and is genteel, refined and "cultured".

Jason


That sounds like every one I know from back home.

Thought you might like this:

[Linked Image]

What a cute couple me and Amber made, Jake was the Dog of Honor.

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< Stunned > biggrin
Well what can I say ?

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Oh dear...how did that get on the net? I guess my ex wife is out to get me! Jake, you were a good dog!

J-

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The Byzantine Church and Culture
By Archbishop Joseph Raya

http://rumkatkilise.org/rayabyzantium.htm

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Originally Posted by RomanRedneck
Oh dear...how did that get on the net? I guess my ex wife is out to get me! Jake, you were a good dog!

J-


laugh

As many of you can see, I contribute nothing to this topic.

blush laugh

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