|
1 members (1 invisible),
188
guests, and
89
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums26
Topics35,403
Posts416,807
Members6,005
| |
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 532 Likes: 2
Member
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 532 Likes: 2 |
Dear CRW,I presume you are pulling the good Fr. Serge's leg!Sometimes one feels the best thing is the choosing of the lesser of two evils,which is why I'll choose McCain this year,though I voted for Buchanan in 2000 and Constitutional Party in 2004.It's like Michael Savage said,"Better to have Bush III than Karl Marx Lite."Maybe I'll end up joining Fr. Serge in Ireland!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1 |
Well, you know the Irish Catholic slogan: Vote Early and Often!
Fr/. Serge
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214 |
Perhaps the Obama supporters could help me come to an understanding of their favorite by answering this question: what is the best Obama has to offer?
Is it his experience? Is it the policies he is pledging to support? Does it have to do with his judgment, if you think him wise? Or is it the image his campaign is trying to brand?
I have a very hard time seeing what about Obama would sell him to the general public. Rhetoric can only go so far. A good speaking voice may qualify someone to be an audio book reader, but to qualify for president there must be more. Who or what someone is not does not help understand who someone is unless that person is God, that is why I ask the questions positively. Most Obama supporters I've talked to have given negative qualifications to their support.
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,964
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,964 |
I plan to vote by secret ballot.
Fr. Serge How many times, Father? We have 50 states plus the District of Columbia. Voting by mail is allowed in many places. Also, places run by Democrats often don't check ID.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,964
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,964 |
... I also know that the media know virtually nothing about Christianity and will talk like dufasses on the subject all the time.
CDL One media method is to quote one preacher and then generalize to all Christians. For example: Orlando, Aug 18, 2008 (CNA).- Bishop of Orlando, Most Rev. Thomas Wenski has responded to an “inaccurate” article in the Orlando Sentinel which claims that Catholic and evangelical leaders “hailed new language for the Democratic Party's platform that calls for reducing abortion” to create “common ground” with Republican voters.
In the disputed article, “Evangelical: We Can Back Dems, Obama,” the Orlando Sentinel quoted one evangelical pastor, Rev. Joel Hunter, who praised the new wording. “From my perspective as a conservative evangelical, Barack Obama's campaign and the Democratic Party have taken a historic and courageous step toward empowering women for an expanded range of choices and saving babies' lives.”
Bishop Wenski wrote to the editor in a letter published on August 16 clarifying that Catholic leaders are not in agreement with Rev. Hunter’s position.
In his letter, Bishop Wenski wrote that the Sentinel article, “inaccurately implied that Catholic leaders shared the positive assessment the Rev. Joel Hunter gave the ‘abortion plank’ of the Democratic Party's platform.”
The bishop continued explaining that “The bishops have gone on record stating just the opposite. And they are the ones who speak as the leaders of the Catholic Church in the United States -- and not political operatives for one party or another who happen to be Catholic.”
“In ‘Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship,’ the bishops wrote that ‘opposing intrinsically evil acts has a special claim on our consciences and our actions’ and warned against a ‘moral equivalence’ that would make no ethical distinctions between different kinds of issues involving human life and dignity.”
Bishop Wenski concluded his letter by quoting Faithful Citizenship. “The direct and intentional destruction of innocent human life from the moment of conception until natural death is always wrong and is not just one issue among many. It must always be opposed."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1 |
Never forget: the ninety percent of politicians who are liars and thieves give a bad name to the ten percent who have not yet been caught.
Or, as Emperor Franz Joseph was fond of saying, the most important part of his job is to protect the people from the politicians!
Fr. Serge
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,186
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,186 |
Or as Ronaldus Magnus used to say "When the government (politians?) comes and says we are here to help you run the other way."
CDL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 396
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 396 |
Oh he was in that car and knowing human nature....Terry you are being too generous to McCain. I have watched his career for the last thirty years; he was listening to that radio! Check up on the history of the Keating five!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,186
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,186 |
Grasping at straws doesn't mean much. The interview shows that McCain has some values that he lives by that correspond with Christianity. Obama does not seem to have any. No amount of excuses will cover for that. Conpiracy theories are often fun but usually don't lead any place.
CDL
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214 |
McCain was on the way to the event and entered the green room midway through Obama's turn. Before the event he was told two of the questions as well as the general topics which would be dicussed. He would have learned that in a private call with Rick Warren, a call Obama had gotten too.
By knowing this and hearing how McCain and Obama fair in unscripted town hall meetings, I can not conclude that McCain cheated because he was more eloquent than Obama. Unscripted, McCain has already been more confident, more grounded, and more eloquent than Obama when he is unscripted.
I cannot say that McCain cheated. I cannot say that he did not cheat. But I can say with confidence that their performance reflected their past performances. Obama has been ineloquent off-the-cuff for some time, it is not new to him. We saw McCain at his best and Obama near his worst during that forum.
This may not mean much come November, but at that time I think it's possible that the petals will have fallen off the Obama rose and people will see past the marketing and branding. Obama will have to offer more than hope in something to gain their votes.
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,564 Likes: 1 |
Dear Father Al,
By all means come to Ireland and be welcome!
Fr. Serge
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 478
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 478 |
Fr. Deacon Paul, Quote:
I am in complete agreement with this statement. Which is why I see little real difference between Obama and McCain and will probably vote for neither. Over the past 14 years, Republicans have had power in many ways - even controlling both executive and legislative branches at one point - yet almost nothing was done to change our laws to protect innocent unborn life. Nothing McCain has said or done makes me believe he will act differently.
Francis,
I challenge this claim. Pres Bush has:
Put a limit on federal funding for fetal stem cell research
Signed the Partial Birth Abortion ban
Appointed two pro-life Supreme Court judges
Prohibited abortion on military installations And I applaud him for that. As I said, Republicans have done "almost nothing" in the past 14 years, not nothing at all. In my own opinion, that list is woefully short compared to what could have been done by both the President and Congress if they really wanted to protect unborn life in this country. Now I ask you, would you rather have pro-abortion propaganda coming from the President of the USA OR would you rather have a imperfect President who doesn't preach abortion, birth control and homosexuality as a normal lifestyle?
Anyone who can vote, but doesn't is freely accepting the next President without reservation. I'm sorry, but voting for a third-party candidate or voting "none of the above" is simply not "accepting the next President without reservation" - the one does not logically follow the other. This would mean that in every single election I am eligible for, I MUST vote for one of the (usually two) candidates that common consensus says can win, or else I am fully supporting the eventual winner. To me, that is illogical reasoning at best. Frankly, I take the long view - longer than four or eight years. The Republicans have put forth a very weak candidate after years of terrible governing. Perhaps them getting crushed this November will send a message to them that they have to return to their roots - social conservatism, limited government, and non-interventionist foreign policy (calling Ron Paul!). If we social conservatives are simply required to vote for the Republican each election because the Democrat is always worse and not voting for the Republican is equivalent to "freely accepting the [Democrat] without reservation" , then what keeps the Republicans honest? They have taken our votes for granted for years, and it has led to horrendous governing on their part. I, for one, will not be taken for granted anymore, and will vote for the candidate that I think best (not perfectly!) represents my philosophy of governing. I pray that one of the two major party candidates will be that one day, but for now, I'm stuck with choosing between the minor candidates or a write-in vote.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 424
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 424 |
I find the whole thing ridiculous, and the divisivness and panderign corruption that occures in Electiosn has certsinly reasserted in me my convictions as a Monarchist.
How can I support a system that provides leadrship that is base don compromise and that expects us to compromise our values to supprot others who compromise theirs to win a seat of power?
How can the Political aprties, so bendt on image and popularity, and who advance nothign but staid political ideologies, nd who are interested only in power and votes, be trusted to be honest?
Obama is a monster, and McCain is a compromised bet, we have no choics htis year except third parties whose chancs of gettign enough news coverage so others even know they exist is minimal.
And int h end we get an Ambiitous politician who sought pwoer by any means, and will impelent a party line becaue they bakc him and ensure his power.
I'm sorry, but I see no profit in this enterprise.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,760
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,760 |
Quote:
Now I ask you, would you rather have pro-abortion propaganda coming from the President of the USA OR would you rather have a imperfect President who doesn't preach abortion, birth control and homosexuality as a normal lifestyle?
Anyone who can vote, but doesn't is freely accepting the next President without reservation.
__________
I'm sorry, but voting for a third-party candidate or voting "none of the above" is simply not "accepting the next President without reservation" - the one does not logically follow the other. This would mean that in every single election I am eligible for, I MUST vote for one of the (usually two) candidates that common consensus says can win, or else I am fully supporting the eventual winner. To me, that is illogical reasoning at best.
Frankly, I take the long view - longer than four or eight years. The Republicans have put forth a very weak candidate after years of terrible governing. Perhaps them getting crushed this November will send a message to them that they have to return to their roots - social conservatism, limited government, and non-interventionist foreign policy (calling Ron Paul!). If we social conservatives are simply required to vote for the Republican each election because the Democrat is always worse and not voting for the Republican is equivalent to "freely accepting the [Democrat] without reservation" , then what keeps the Republicans honest? They have taken our votes for granted for years, and it has led to horrendous governing on their part. I, for one, will not be taken for granted anymore, and will vote for the candidate that I think best (not perfectly!) represents my philosophy of governing. I pray that one of the two major party candidates will be that one day, but for now, I'm stuck with choosing between the minor candidates or a write-in vote. Francis, What I said was that if you DON'T vote then one is freely accepting the next president without reservation. Voting for a third party does send a message and CAN lead to long term change, as you wisely said. If Ron Paul was a third party candidate then I would consider voting for him IF I thought that taking my vote away from a lukewarm pro-lifer would not throw that victory to a pro-abort. Regarding third party voting, I think the way to weaken the two major parties is to vote for 3rd parties at a local and state level where the stakes are lesser. This would "raise" third party leaders who could grow the upstart party to a lasting level. I agree that we owe nothing to the Democrat and Republican parties. Many blessed years, Fr Deacon Paul
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,214 |
I am reserving the decision to vote for McCain until the convention selects as his VP. If he has a pro-choice VP that will upset any advantage he had gained in my books.
My only option then will be to vote against Obama with regret.
Terry
|
|
|
|
|
