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So why change what works without a good reason? Since we are not invited to venerate the cross during the liturgy why not do it after the liturgy is over? Why take that away from the people? It's probably just another part of the Archbishop Schott Reform. He seems to hate anything that is ours.
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U-C,
No rubrics are the directions printed in red ink in our official books. Anything else is a custom no matter how long it has been done or how many parishes do it.
Fr. Deacon Lance ...and I would view the above mentioned liturgical customs as part of the received "Ruthenian Recension" tradition. I could care less what is or is not in writing. There are nuances in the numerous recensions of the Constantinopolitan Particular Church tradition, and this is but another example of those differences as celebrated by those Churches using the "Ruthenian Recension". U-C
Last edited by Ung-Certez; 03/16/09 09:14 PM.
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If we consider long-standing practices and customs as "received" tradition, we open ourselves up to worse atrocities than people are saying we are now facing with the RDL. Twenty, thirty maybe even fifty years from now abominable customs may be accepted and then people much the same will be arguing for their inclusion. If it is not for the standardized rubrics and customs we would not be the Liturgical Church that we are has Catholic and Orthodox Christians.
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If we consider long-standing practices and customs as "received" tradition, we open ourselves up to worse atrocities than people are saying we are now facing with the RDL. Twenty, thirty maybe even fifty years from now abominable customs may be accepted and then people much the same will be arguing for their inclusion. If it is not for the standardized rubrics and customs we would not be the Liturgical Church that we are has Catholic and Orthodox Christians. I clearly make distinctions from organic local traditions vs. those that were direct Latinizations. I'm not talking about the Latinizations of 50 years ago, I'm talking about authentic, organic "Ruthenian Recension" traditions. U-C
Last edited by Ung-Certez; 03/17/09 12:16 AM.
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Again noone is being stopped from venerating the Cross. If a priest chooses not to encourage or to discontinue a local custom that does not make a lot of sense, i.e. making prostrations after we receive Christ in the Eucharist, he has every right to do so.
Fr. Deacon Lance
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...and I would view the above mentioned liturgical customs as part of the received "Ruthenian Recension" tradition. I could care less what is or is not in writing. There are nuances in the numerous recensions of the Constantinopolitan Particular Church tradition, and this is but another example of those differences as celebrated by those Churches using the "Ruthenian Recension".
I clearly make distinctions from organic local traditions vs. those that were direct Latinizations. I'm not talking about the Latinizations of 50 years ago, I'm talking about authentic, organic "Ruthenian Recension" traditions.
U-C Yet your arguement could be used to support the Rosary as a public devotion, Stations instead of Presanctified, non-communing of infants, and the list goes on. Non-written custom cannot be given the same weight as published rubric, especially when they contradict the written rubrics or common liturgical sense. Fr. Deacon Lance
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Again noone is being stopped from venerating the Cross. If a priest chooses not to encourage or to discontinue a local custom that does not make a lot of sense, i.e. making prostrations after we receive Christ in the Eucharist, he has every right to do so.
Fr. Deacon Lance ...but it is technically "outside" the liturgy, after the final blessing and dismissal. If it was that incorrect, I doubt that the Orthodox Churches using the "Ruthenian Recension" would contunue doing so. U-C
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...but it is technically "outside" the liturgy, after the final blessing and dismissal. If it was that incorrect, I doubt that the Orthodox Churches using the "Ruthenian Recension" would contunue doing so.
U-C Why? There are ACROD parishes without iconstasis and still doing First Holy Communion. Fr. Deacon Lance
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[quote=Ung-Certez]
...but it is technically "outside" the liturgy, after the final blessing and dismissal. If it was that incorrect, I doubt that the Orthodox Churches using the "Ruthenian Recension" would contunue doing so.
U-C Why? There are ACROD parishes without iconstasis and still doing First Holy Communion. end of quote] I could count those ACROD parishes w/out ikonostases and/or with First Communion celebrations on half a hand. Yet I would probably have to use both hands and feet to count the number of "Sui Juris Metropolitan Byzantine Church of America" parishes without ikonostases. U-C
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But the fact that ACROD is doing it doesn't make it good practice any more than some of the parishes not having iconostases.
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You should also retract your claim of Helenicized rubrics. In this case you may have wanted Helenicized rubrics as BDW calls for procession with the Cross and its veneration (without prostrations) to take place after "Blessed be the name of the Lord..." at the end of Liturgy.
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You should also retract your claim of Helenicized rubrics. In this case you may have wanted Helenicized rubrics as BDW calls for procession with the Cross and its veneration (without prostrations) to take place after "Blessed be the name of the Lord..." at the end of Liturgy.
Fr. Deacon Lance I say that because is it not true that the Helenic Greek Church does not have the custom of using the tetrapod? It is not true that the Helenic Greek Church does not sing the Paschal music beyond Bright Week? Both of these are unique local "Ruthenian Recension" customs that have been in place in our Churches for many years but have now been removed. What other reason would these local customs be removed if our bishops weren't trying to make our recension resemble Helenic Greek usage???  U-C (lets call a spade a spade)
Last edited by Ung-Certez; 03/17/09 11:19 AM.
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But the fact that ACROD is doing it doesn't make it good practice any more than some of the parishes not having iconostases.
Fr. Deacon Lance Case in point, Father Raymond in Johnstown spends much money to place iconography on the walls of his parish, but do they have an ikonostas (there was one originally in the parish up until 1930)? No, they do not have an ikonostas. Did not Met. Judson decree all churches install ikonstases? Yet there are over a dozen "Sui Juris Metropolitan Byzantine Church of America" parishes without ikonostases. U-C
Last edited by Ung-Certez; 03/17/09 11:10 AM.
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(lets call a spade a spade) While we're at it, let's call the Greeks 'Hel lenes'
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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(lets call a spade a spade) While we're at it, let's call the Greeks 'Hel lenes' Where is SpellCheck when you need it the most, especially when one isn't familiar with such church rubrics, recensions, or local customs, etc. U-C
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