www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Moscow Patriarchate tells Vatican that Uniate "problem" ...

Moscow Patriarchate tells Vatican that Uniate "problem" should be at the centre of ecumenical dialogue

by Nina Achmatova
22 September 2014
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Mosc...centre-of-ecumenical-dialogue-32217.html

Metropolitan Hilarion again attacks the "project" of the Catholic Church to proselytise in Ukraine, says theological issues should be put aside to address and solve instead the Greek Catholic "problem".


Moscow (AsiaNews) - The Moscow Patriarchate has attacked once again Ukraine's Greek Catholics, warning the Vatican that the "problems" involving the so-called Uniates might have a negative impact on the ecumenical dialogue and relations between the Russian Orthodox Church and the Santa See.

Metropolitan Hilarion, number two in the Patriarchate and head of the Department for External Church Relations of the Moscow Patriarchate, made this point recently on television.

Hilarion sharply criticised Ukrainian Greek Catholics on the programme Church and World reiterating his accusations that the "Uniates" (a term for Catholics that follow the Orthodox rite that has a derogatory connotation) are a special project of the Catholic Church to proselytise.

In his view, at "present" as at other historical times, Greek Catholics have exploited "the support of the Ukrainian authorities of the time" at the expense of the Orthodox.

According to the Orthodox official, despite complaints from the Moscow Patriarchate about the "problem", the Vatican continues to claim to have no influence over the Ukrainian Catholic community because of its autonomous status, and yet it continues to confirm the appointments of all its spiritual leaders.

For Hilarion, "there is something improper in the project itself". Speaking directly to the Catholic hierarchy, he proposed a provocative idea to Catholics.

"It may be that you and we should now discuss in the theological dialogue not such theoretical questions as primacy and conciliarity in the Church but return to the topic of the unia(te) in order to understand why this wound bleeds all the time and why we cannot do anything to repair and heal it," he said.

Reading in-between the lines, he wants the two Churches to draft some kind of code of conduct for the Greek Orthodox and Catholics in the territories where they live.

Against the backdrop of the crisis in Ukraine, the top leaders in the Moscow Patriarchate have already attacked the positions of the Greek Catholics on several occasions. For Russian Orthodox religious leaders, Greek Catholics are guilty for their support of the protests in Kyiv's Maidan Square and for promoting anti-Russian sentiments.

By contrast, the Major Archbishop of Kyiv, Sviatoslav Shevchuk, issued an appeal for reconciliation this summer through AsiaNews. In it, he called on Moscow to recognise the dignity of the Ukrainian people and open a sincere dialogue based on truth. At the same time, he urged people not to believe in the "propaganda" coming out of Russia.

Like an old, scratched record that keeping repeating the same thing...

Interesting how the Russian Church has a problem with Catholics building churches in pre-dominant Orthodox countries, while they seem to have no problem doing the same in pre-dominant Catholic countries.

If the Orthodox in Russia were truly independent of the state/Faith nexus, they would not see the Greek Catholics as the "boogeyman." The current MP and his leadership made their bed, he and his church shall deal with the consequences when Putinism fails, as it shall.

Father Dr. Athanasius D. McVay wrote an excellent response to Metropolitan Hilarion on the Society of St. John Chrysostom's blog entitled Bleeding Wound in a Political Heart [orientale-lumen.blogspot.it]

The ROC doesn't like Greek Catholics?

Really!

Alex

Having come from the Russian Orthodox ethos, and having left it quite painfully, a good bit of researching (IMHO) into the history of the 20th-21st century 'moscow patriarchate' would certainly be called for. It wouldn't take too long either to look at the history of its 'patriarch' Kirill Gundyaev (Metropolitan HIlarion Alfeyev is his successor in the External Relations Dept.)and his long, foundational ties to the WCC and FSB (former KGB) and why he is referred to as the 'Tobacco Patriarch'. This, and much, much more should be brought into the context before any discussion about what the MP does or doesn't think about the 'uniates' is seriously undertaken. IMHO, this would at least provide some helpful delineations.
Take a few minutes and Google photos of Metropolitan Hilarion Alfeyev (click on "Images" at the top of the browser) and try to count the number of photo-ops with the pope(s) and higher ups in the Vatican... the exchanging of gifts and robust gesturings, etc. In addition, ROCOR (Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia), aka historically known as the 'diaspora' following the Bolshevik revolt, has its synodal headquarters in New York, and in 2007 its hierarchs, amidst much scandal, and to the shagrin and scattering of many in the diaspora, gave credibility to the contemporary 'Moscow Patriarchate' and reunited with her calling her the 'Mother Church'. The ramifications of this are too far-reaching to even begin discussing in this context.
As I said, there is so much information and history required in order to have an honest and thorough discussion about the MP vs. the Byzantine ('uniate') Catholics. A good question is: what is Rome doing giving unquestioned(?) credence to a 'Moscow Patriarchate' that derives from Stalin (1943) and his puppet 'patriarch' of sorrowful memory, Sergius Stradorovsky?... and is Rome actively 'protecting/defending' the so-called 'uniates' in Ukraine and elsewhere? I do hope so.

Please note, I have not made specific accusations or judgements in what I have stated here, though inferences are sometimes unavoidable. That serves no purpose in the context of a blog atmosphere. But taking the time and prayerful effort to understand both the 'genesis' and continuum of the CONTEMPORARY [b]MP[/b], Rome's current relationship with the 'MP', and the continuing persecution Orthodox by the MP of those in the diaspora within Russian herself (easily documented) bears looking into, if one isn't fearful of drawing conclusions that will be found challenging on a number of levels. I told a friend recently..."you live in the same world, and have access (esp. because of the internet) to the same facts and historical recitations as I do". What you do [b]or[/b] don't do with that is your choice. Either way, there will be inescapable consequences.
BTW, before becoming Russian Orthodox, I was Roman Catholic for nearly 25 years, and Protestant for 35 years prior to that. I have heard some accuse those who have been among the different claimants to ecclesiastical antiquity / succession, as I and my wife have, to be malcontent or self-directed. No doubt some (and probably more than a handful) fall into those unfortunate categories.. we ourselves may have been affected by such weaknesses along the way as well (we are sinners). But, I would venture to say quite firmly, that the 2000+ years following Pentecost has produced an 'ecclesiastical landscape' of incessant warfare, divisions and excruciating confusion (as should be expected) has made [i]an honest desire[/i] (on our part)to find Christ [i]truly[/i], [u]in His Church[/u] through His Mysteries (Sacraments)[b]in our day[/b], necessary to accept a hand that is bloodied from 'knocking', a heart and mind that refuse to stop 'asking', and a faith that can only be [b]providentially[/b] 'steeled' for the journey of 'seeking'. Love alone can solve this... and that is not a cheesy platitude. (Luke 7:47; Jeremiah 29:13 and Matthew 7:7). I can take criticism and have for decades... but I cannot bear the [i]absence[/i] of love or even 'neighborliness' by those who claim to know Love Himself.
We are now beginning our inquiry into the (Byzantine) Eastern Greek-Catholic church(es) before retiring, of necessity, into solitude. We have been educated through long years of experience and sacrifice in all the other options. [u]Please don't judge us too harshly, if at all[/u]... you too must answer why you are not Protestant, or Vatican II or Traditionalist Catholic, or 'Orthodox'. You too had to reach conclusions. This is the sad legacy bequeathed to us, but one through which God's image and likeness can be most wonderfully restored in us, if we so allow, by patient endurance and "loving one another."
Thank you for taking the time to read through my ramblings.

A sinner.

Ivanov

Thank you for writing them, sir!

Alex

Metropolitan Hilarion is at it again!

Source. [cruxnow.com]
You can listen to His Eminence's radio show with His Beatitude as his guest: link. [soundcloud.com]

Section of Metropolitan Hilarion's address where he speaks of the UGCC:

Source. [mospat.ru]

The nerve to do this at the synod!

Does anyone take what Metropolitan Hilarion says seriously? Particularly in Rome?

Yes, in fact the annual "Take Met Hilarion Seriously" conference is in a few weeks. (Not that I'll be going; I'm not real big on flying these days.)

I saw on the MP English website that Met. Hilarion is in Rome and scheduled to meet with the Pope and others. Now diplomatic niceties would preclude having the UGCC Patriarch as a part of the Vatican delegation BUT it would be great if say Archbishop Cyril Vasil was. I'd like to see those photos. But, Rome won't do that.....

Considering that the photo below shows His Beatitude standing behind the metropolitan, I am sure some conversation took place between them. Not sure if this photo was taken before or after Hilarion's speech.

Please forgive my lack of prudence and discretion. I had not intended to make a personal attack on Metropolitan Hilarion.

More specifically, I wondered how many people seriously consider his rhetoric about the "uniate problem" to be the true stumbling block between Orthodoxy (worldwide?) and the Catholic Church that it would seem he is regularly trying to communicate to Rome and the rest of the world.

I was today given this audio link to a recording of a conversation between Patr. Sviatoslav and Timothy Cardinal Dolan .

It's absolutely fascinating

Conversation at the Synod [cardinaldolan.org]

That's good, I feared the Vatican diplomat types would have gotten in the way of that.

Met. Hilarion seemed a few years ago to be a bright light in the ROC, but lately he seems like just another MP mouthpiece. Perhaps he's doing what he is told, but still, the rhetoric is sad.