www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Question for our Ukrainian friends

I just the latest issue of "The Way." In a short article, Metropolitan Soroka mentions that of the 50 priests in the Philadelphia Archdiocese, 13 are married. Question: what ever happened to the provisions of "Cum Data Fuerit," the 1929 Papal decree which required Eastern Catholic priests to be celibate?. Why are there, by contrast, so few married clergy in the Pittsburgh Metropolia?

I asked this question in an earlier post and got no real response.

I also sent an e-mail to the Local Ukrainian priest and I'm still waiting for a response.

Facts of the issue aside, however, I greatly appreciated the apparent openness of the Archeparchy in publishing the information.

I wish that all churches were making such an effort.

One Love.

bob r.

The previous decree was declared null and void in 1999. I guess there are so few married priests in our eparchy is that no Ukranian priests want to come over here. (Yea, right!).

When the Melkites ordained Fr. Andre St. Germain back in the 80s Cardinal Silvestrini publically said Rome would not get involved. Since then the Romanians, Melkites and Ukrainians have openly ordained married men.

Actually one married priest who transferred from the UGCC is serving in the Ruthenian Eparchy of Parma as is one other from Eastern Europe. But yes, outside of the Eparchy of Parma married clergy are relatively unknown in the Metropolia. It takes a bishop and a candidate. If either are lacking, it doesn't happen.

And it would be a bit facetious of the Latins to say that since they have taken dozens of married Episcopalians and Lutherans as Roman priests.
DD

Dear Father DIAKon,

Yes indeed!

I have a friend who is a traditional Anglican Catholic who belongs to that group of about half a million Anglican Catholics that are seeking communion with Rome (he told me yesterday that his bishops have even told the Vatican that they will submit their resignations to it so that the Pope himself could choose their own bishops etc.!).

Their priests are largely married - Rome will definitely accept them, to be sure! After all, what can you do since they were "invincibly ignorant" when they have married clergy?

And if it should happen that ALL Anglican, Lutheran and other Protestant married clergy should become Catholic, would Rome say they couldn't function as priests because they are married?

Of course not!

One needs to show mercy to the "Invincibly Ignorant!"

One could even predict a time when in the Latin Church the invincibly ignorant Protestant clergy converts that become Catholic priests will outnumber the "enlightened celibate" priests.

Who knows . . .

Alex

Dear John,

The problem in the EC churches is that our bishops can be more papal than the pope in this matter.

Rome's control over our Eparchs is also a large part of the problem.

Our Eastern Eparchy is among the most traditional Eastern, as well as "Ukrainian" eparchies around.

Yet we keep getting bishops who are from outside the Eparchy, in effect, "Rome's men."

And these and others don't make it easy for married priests, even though we have about 70% of our priests being married.

(Interestingly enough, celibacy was enforced in the West to avoid "caste systems" from developing among priestly families - yet our current Eparch is the nephew of our former Eparch . . . )

Frankly, I would not want to be a married priest in our Eparchy and endure the snears and difficulties by the higher-ups . . . that's all I'll say on the matter.

The argument by our Basilian/Redemptorist bishops (our Eparch WAS formerly a Basilian, but he left . . .) is that married priests make their "moving around" difficult and so we still have the problems of a "priest shortage."

That problem could be averted if the celibate priests that we do have, and who are favoured by high ecclesial positions as if to be rewarded for being celibate, would be sent into needed areas rather than expecting married priests to do that work all the time.

There is much hypocrisy going on with respect to this question.

Alex

A wonderful Ukrainian priest sent me the following this morning as part of a larger letter:

"MARRIED PRIESTS: Yes it is true that with "Cum Data Fuerit" a "ruling" from some Vatican office in the early part of the 20th century, married priests were forbidden to be ordained or to serve "in the New World" which would be North and South America and Australia and areas nearby there. Still a few did come over and work, but those were rare cases.

Starting in the early 1980's married priests were brought over from Ukraine "on loan" and began working here. Then American men who wanted to be married and ordained were sent to Ukraine after seminary. A bishop over there would ordain them and then "loan them" back to the USA.

To make a long and complicated story very short, a little more than a year ago all the eastern Catholic bishops in the U.S. decided they would simply start ordaining married men here, without sending them to Ukraine. In our...eparchy, our bishop ordained such a man...

So basically, the rule is now just being ignored. Probably about 1/3 of the priests in our eparchy are married, and nearly all of them are from Ukraine, but a few are natives here..."

I hope that this helps!

One Love.

bob r.

Bob, there is a significant difference. Bringing a priest over who was validly ordained in "old country" and on loan to the American eparchies is one thing. Priests move around dioceses or eparchies and that is no big deal. And frankly, there were problems with that arrangement, as well...long story for us who have been around UGCC parishes for the last 20 years.

It is another thing entirely to openly ordain a man within the US as the Melkites did with Fr. Andre and have Rome state it would not interfere or object. That opened the gate, so to speak.
DD

Yes, I know. I was only responding to the initial question. I read the same article and put in a posting here which went unanswered. So I was happy to see that someone else caught this really excellent article and had the same questions I did. I have learned a great deal from this exhange. If it will be helpful to others, you should indeed extrapolate about other denominations or churches or rites. I have a particular interest in the Ukrainian experience.

One Love.

bob r.

Dear Bob Rossi,

Are you of Ukrainian background yourself . . . if only a little?

Not that it matters if you wanted to join our church . . . it does help . . .

You could be renamed, "Bohdan Rossovich" you know

Alex

I'm laughing!

Actually, I do attend both a Ukrainian and a Latin Rite chuirch regularly.

Over the years my name has been changed into Serbian, Arabic and Russian. And now Ukrainian! I prefer Arabic because of what my name means when translated.

Part of my family spoke a language which is not part of the European family of languages and is hardly written down anywhere, but is none-the-less only spoken in an obscure corner of Europe. Years ago someone found a lengthy religious text in that language in an attic in Pennsylvania.

Pavic's "Dictionary of the Khazars" is one of my favorite books.

My story and name aside, however, this recent conversation about the Ukrainian Church really should make it totally appealing to non-Ukrainians.

The Ukrainian church here draws many non-Ukrainians and I have never left feeling anything by great inside in a very physical way!

The Latin church I attend always leaves me with something to think about and ponder; great mental exercise!

For most of my life before finding these churches I left church feeling a bit confused or depressed.

I try to do a lengthy pilgrimage each year out of the US. In times past, I've done this as much to get away from the confusion and depression for the pilgrimage itself. But the two churches now add to my pilgrimages and help me prepare for them in very subtle ways.

It's a great contrast for me and I'm thankful for what I have here.

One Love.

bob r.

Brat' Oleksandr, if we used "Rossia..." for Bob's name that would make him from somewhere east of Donbas...
DD

"Take me somewhere East of Donbas, where the best is like the worst,

Where there ain't no Ten Commandments, and a man can raise a thirst . . ."

OK - who wrote the poem I've just misquoted?

Incognitus

Dear Incognitus/Neznannij Otets

Probably someone who, like yourself, wouldn't want his name to be publicly known because of that poem . . . )

Alex

Dear Bohdane Rossovich,

You are right - the UGCC should and must be open to everyone, including someone like our Administrator with his beautiful voice!

Look what happened to Angela of Glasgow - she's now "Anhelyna" and on Robbie Burns' Day I understand she gets a great desire to eat haggis-stuffed perogies!

Alex