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As we all know the Pentarchy comprises of the 5 Holy See's. All with Apostolic succession.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is how it goes;

Rome (Italy) - Apostolic succession of St. Peter
Constantinople (Turkey) - Apostolic succession of St. Andrew
Alexandria (Egypt) - Apostolic succession of St. Mark
Antioch (Syria) Apostolic succession of St. Paul
Jerusalem (Israel) - Apostolic succession of St. James

Do both Catholic and Orthodox have a Patriarch or Bishop in each of these See's.

Brad

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Quote
Originally posted by Intrigued Latin:
As we all know the Pentarchy comprises of the 5 Holy See's. All with Apostolic succession.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think this is how it goes;

Rome (Italy) - Apostolic succession of St. Peter
Constantinople (Turkey) - Apostolic succession of St. Andrew
Alexandria (Egypt) - Apostolic succession of St. Mark
Antioch (Syria) Apostolic succession of St. Paul
Jerusalem (Israel) - Apostolic succession of St. James

Do both Catholic and Orthodox have a Patriarch or Bishop in each of these See's.
Brad,

Antioch is also the See of Peter and some consider Alexandria to have been of Peter, as well, although it's more commonly attributed to Mark.

These are the Patriarchs (excluding the Latin Patriarchs ad honorem):

1. Constantinople

Ecumenical Patriach
Armenian Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople

2. Alexandria

Coptic Orthodox Pope and Patriarch of the See of Alexandria of Saint Mark and of All Africa
Greek Orthodox Pope and Patriarch of Alexandria and All Africa
Coptic Catholic Patriarch of Alexandria
Melkite Catholic Patriarch of Antioch and All the East, of Alexandria & Jerusalem

3. Antioch

Melkite Catholic Patriarch of Antioch and All the East, of Alexandria & Jerusalem
Syriac Catholic Patriarch of Antioch & All the East
Maronite Catholic Patriarch of Antioch & All the East
Prince Patriarch of Antioch & All the East of the Syrian Orthodox
Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch & All the East (Antiochan Orthodox)

4. Jerusalem

Patriarch of the Sacred City of Jerusalem and of the Whole of Palestine (Greek Orthodox)
Armenian Orthodox Patriarch of the See of Saint James in Jerusalem
Melkite Catholic Patriarch of Antioch and All the East, of Alexandria & Jerusalem
Latin Catholic Patriarch of Jerusalem

5. Rome

Patriarch of the West and Bishop of Rome

6. Other Patriarchates

Russian Orthodox Patriarch of Moscow
Tewahedo Orthodox Patriarch of Ethiopia
Orthodox Patriarch of Eritrea
Supreme Patriarch and Catholicos of All Armenians in Etchmiadzin
The Catholicos of the Catholicosate of the Great House of Cilicia of the Armenians
Catholicos-Patriarch of Cilicia of the Catholic Armenians
Catholicos-Patriarch of Babylon & Ur of the Chaldees for the Catholic Chaldeans
Catholicos-Patriarch of the Assyrian Church of the East
Catholicos of the Catholicosate of the East (Malankara Orthodox Church)
Orthodox Patriarch of the Serbs
Patriarch of the Romanian Orthodox Church
Orthodox Patriarch of All Bulgaria
Orthodox Catholicos-Patriarch of All Georgia
Patriarch of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church-Kievan Patriarchate
Patriarch of the Ukrainian Autocephalous Orthodox Church

Many years,

Neil

(Note that the above list does not make provision for any of the many vagante patriarchs.)


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Yes, Antioch list Peter as the first. (Never heard of Paul in this See)
Stephanos I
Some say that all of the See's are of Petrine foundation, excepting Constantinople.
1. Peter was first in charge of the Church of Jerusalem, then handed it over to James on his departure for Antioch.
2. Peter had his see in Antioch before he departed for Rome.
3. Peter was Head of the Church in Rome before his Martyrdom.
(Although I would add that from earliest times there was the idea; that Rome had both Peter and Paul as the founders of the Church there.)

4. As to Alexandria, while there is no direct connection with Peter (I may be wrong though). Mark who was a disciple of Peter, went to that See.

Stephanos I

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These are the Patriarchs (excluding the Latin Patriarchs ad honorem):
Are there currently Latin Patriarchs in the other four Patriarchies as well?

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The early Church actually had six Patriarchs!

The Patriarch of Aquileia was finally done away with after the Vatican reforms. The glorious city itself had been destroyed by the barbarians in the early 5th century and the residents fled to the nearby island of Grado and also established Venice. The residents of Aquileia, as I understand it, were Venetti, a non-Latin people. I'm not even sure that their language is included in the Italic Sub-Family, but they certainly are not in with the Romance branch. Liturgically, I don't know if their worship was closer to East or West.

The Greek Orthodox have a quickly growing Metropolitanate of Italy which has its see in Venice, thus possibly reviving that Patriarchate someday, but as one of the Eastern Rite.

Latin Rite still has a Patriarch of Lisbon (and all the Americas), if I'm not mistaken, but it is only a nominal Patriarchate.

In Christ,
Andrew

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Dear Andrew,

A brilliant point . . .

In fact, the city and Archdiocese of Milan followed, as you know, the Ambrosian Rite where, in the Liturgy, mention is made of the "pope."

I understand that RC liturgical scholars have determined that that was not a reference to the Patriarch of the West, but to the Metropolitan of Milan . . .

Our parish priest once said that he studied the Ambrosian Liturgy and said that it was definitely, in a number of respects, closer to the East than to the West, liturgically speaking.

Alex

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Dear Alex,

I rejoice at your presence among us and give you my very best naval salute!

Regarding the Milanese/Ambrosians:

As Johnny Carson used to say, "I did not know that."

Were the Milanese, at this point, already Lombards, i.e. recent arrivals from the German lands, or was that arrival later? Was the worship in Latin, as I assume?

[the great Ambrose, as you may have guessed, is being claimed by "us" as having been of Illyrian ancestry.]

In Christ,
Andrew

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Dear Andrew,

Yes, the Liturgy is in Latin, although I came across an English translation at our Catholic library here. I think the Synod of Milan has a translation on their site.

St Ambrose, incidentally, is a patron of honey and bees in Europe since the Slavonic form of "Milan" follows the Latin "Mediolanus" and "med" means "honey" in the Slavic languages.

There was also a tradition that his parents saw bees come into and out of his mouth as he slept as a baby . . .

Whenever you would like some further "useless" information, you know who to contact! smile

Alex

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Here's an interesting exposition on the Patriarchate of Aquileia and it's translocation of all places to Ireland!!! How accurate this is I have no idea, but it's fascinating story.

http://uk.geocities.com/church_of_rockall/history.html

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Talk about "useless" info! LOL

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Patriarch of Aquileia is now known as the Patriarchate of Venice and the head of the Catholic church in that city is still styled as the Patriarch to this day.

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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
Yes, the Liturgy is in Latin, although I came across an English translation at our Catholic library here. I think the Synod of Milan has a translation on their site.
Alex and Andrew,

Yes, the Holy Synod of Milan does indeed have an English translation of the Ambrosian Liturgy on one of its sites, as well as Mozarabic, Sarum, Gallican, Coloniense Liturgies and that of Saint Tikhon, together with several Eastern Liturgies. See:

Liturgical Texts [odox.net]

Many years,

Neil


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Originally posted by Irish Melkite:
These are the Patriarchs (excluding the Latin Patriarchs ad honorem)
Quote
Originally posted by Francis:
Are there currently Latin Patriarchs in the other four Patriarchies as well?
Francis,

In the Latin Church, there are presently 4 Patriarchs, other than the Pope as Patriarch of the West. There is only a single Major Latin Catholic Patriarch (other than the Patriarch of the West) - that of Jerusalem. The position is the only extant Latin Catholic Patriarchate of the Orient. The patriarchal title is largely ceremonial, as his exercise of authority is in his archepiscopal capacity. The incumbent is:

His Beatitude Michel Sabbah, Patriarch of Jerusalem for the Latin Catholics & Archbishop of Jerusalem of the Latins

There are 3 Minor Latin Catholic Patriarchs of the West. For each of them, the title is honorific or ceremonial (although only 1 of the 3 is actually styled ad honorem). The titles carry with them no jurisdictional authority; those who hold the seats derive their authority from their archepiscopal roles. The incumbents (and a bit of the history of each title) are:

His Eminence Jos� da Cruz Cardinal Policarpo, Patriarch & Archbishop of Lisbon

The Patriarchal title currently held by the Cardinal Archbishop of Lisbon was created in response to secular, rather than religious, need. King John of Portugal asked for (and was granted) it as a condition of supplying troops to assist in fighting the Turks - so, I guess he can be said to have bartered for it, rather than "bought" it. He wanted a patriarch for Portugal because Spain had one (more about that below). The position originally was attached to the King's chapel and was separate from the Archbishopric of Lisbon; the churches and other religious institutions of the city were divided between the two. That situation changed about 25 years later when Pope Benedict XIV merged the 2 positions.

His Eminence Angelo Cardinal Scola, Patriarch & Archbishop of Venice

Frequently, people presume that the Venetian Patriarchate exists because the See traces its origins to Saint Mark. Actually, its history isn't much more noble than that of Lisbon. In the early centuries, it wasn't uncommon that the title "Patriarch" was loosely used to honor bishops who were thought of highly or who ruled Sees that were especially extensive or had a particularly venerable history. In one northern Italian diocese (Aquileia, which Andrew cited above), the bishop began to take his patriarchal title seriously enough that he decided that he and his jurisdiction should be subject to neither Rome nor Constantinople. So, for about 150 years, from the mid-6th century to around 700 AD, the Church was plagued by two successive schisms in that region. In about 605-606, the newly-elected successor to the patriarchal title of Aquileia (who by then had fled to and was residing on the island of Grado) decided to make peace with Rome; however, one group of suffragn bishops refused to submit and elected their own patriarch, who was installed back at the original site of Aquileia (sometimes referred to as "old Aquileia"). It took another 100 years to resolve that schism. For some bizarre reason, even after the schism ended, Rome not only tolerated continued use of the title but, for a long time, it was used in both canonical jurisdictions. Ultimately, the 2 dioceses came to be merged into the See of Udine, part of the Venetian Republic, and in 1750 (or thereabouts), Pope Benedict XIV declared the title changed to Patriarch of Venice (for something like 300 years prior to that, the incumbency of the post had been limited to Venetians).

His Excellency, The Most Reverend Filipe Neri Ant�nio Sebasti�o do Ros�rio Ferr�o, Patriarch ad honorem of the East Indies & Archbishop of Goa & Daman

This patriarchate was actually created late. Leo XIII established it around 1885, reportedly as a balance to that of the West Indies (see below). (There's a compelling reason :rolleyes: ). This was another instance of balancing Spanish and Portuguese sensitivities. There has been speculation that when the See is next vacated, the title will not be granted to the successor archbishop and the patriarchate will be suppressed de facto, if not de jure.


The Patriarch ad honorem of the West Indies is the fourth and only other Minor Latin Catholic Patriarchate of the West. It was erected in the Spanish hierarchy in the early 16th century, as a consequence of Columbus' discovery of America. The expectation was that the patriarch would reign over America, which never happened. The position was ultimately joined with a Spanish military hierarchical post and never exercised any jurisdiction. It has been vacant since 1946 and is generally considered to be suppressed, de facto, though not de jure.

The Minor Latin Catholic Patriarchates of the Orient have been formally suppressed and it is inconcievable that they would be re-erected. Ultimately, suppression was recognition of the affrontery attached to the appointment of Latin Patriarchs to traditional Oriental Patriarchates - reminiscent of the period in which unity was synonymous with Latinization.

The Patriarchate of Constantinople of the Latins was canonically erected in 1204. It actually had jurisdictional authority for a time, encompassing a couple dozen archdioceses and about 60 suffragn dioceses. After the Latins lost control of the city in 1261, the Patriarchs resided variously in Greece or at Rome and were allowed to be represented in Constantinople only by priests designated as patriarchal vicars. Four hundred years passed before permission was granted for a resident bishop as the Patriarch's vicar. For all practical purposes, the office was ultimately suppressed in 1772. I don't believe that the titular title has been granted since Antonio Anastasio Rossi, Archbishop of Udine (IT), who held it from 1927 until his death, reposed in 1948.

The Patriarchate of Alexandria of the Latins was established in 1215, although the earliest documentation of an appointment to it is of a Patriarch Athanasius in 1219, of whom nothing else is known. The next recorded name is that of a Dominican named Giles, enthroned in 1310. After the mid-16th century, when Latins ceased to have any influence in the Byzantine Empire, it was reduced to a titular See. Archbishop Luca Ermenegildo Pasetto was the titular patriarch from 1950 until he reposed in 1954; I am unaware that any successor was ever named.

The title of Patriarch of Antioch of the Latins Catholics was first held by a Bernard, appointed in 1100. Cristiano (Christian) Opizo, OP, of thrice-blessed memory, was the last incumbent. Dominicans believe, but cannot confirm with certainty, that he was "Father Christian", a documented contemporary of St. Domenic. He likely succeeded to the See in 1247, the year of his predecessor's repose. A contemporaneous account reports that when the city was overrun in 1268 by the Tartars, Patriarch Cristiano donned full pontifical vesture and prostrated himself in prayer at the cathedral's main altar. He was joined by 4 of his fellow Dominicans, also vested; they waited there for the invaders and were martyred. After that date, Rome continued to appoint Patriarchs to the See, but none of them was able to take possession of it and, by the end of the 14th century, it was reduced to titular status. Archbishop Roberto Vincentini held the titular title from 1925 until he reposed in 1953; I don't believe it has been granted since that time.

There is a basic difference between the office of Patriarch in the Western and Eastern Churches. All bishops in the Western Church, regardless of what office they hold, are subject to the Pope in both his papal role and his patriarchal role. A true patriarch cannot be the subject of another patriarch. A true patriarch rules territory which is solely subject to his jurisdiction, and not subject to any other patriarch. The "patriarchates", so-called, in the Western Church, lack these critical points of distinction.

Eastern Patriarchs directly rule the faithful of their Particular Churches, who are not simultaneously subject to any other Patriarch. It is in the exercise of his papal role that the Eastern Patriarchs are subject to the Pope; as Patriarch of the West, he is - to them - primus inter pares, first among equals.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."

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