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Joined: Nov 2001
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Dear Friends,
We should also say that whenever the Pope canonizes a new saint, he is speaking infallibly.
Beatification does not have the same infallible weight as does canonization.
Ultimately, and within the Catholic-Orthodox dialogue, the issue of infallibility must return to the context of "infallibility of the Petrine Minister" vis-a-vis the context of defining what is already contained in apostolic tradition, especially as affirmed in an Ecumenical Council.
Or so I think, anyway.
Alex
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Dear Alex: Reading your "infallible" pronouncement, I warmly welcome you back from your sabbatical! Amado 
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Diak,
Liturgical prescriptions are one thing,Dogma another. Stephanos, you have illustrated a major difference in perspective between the Eastern and Roman churches. We do not necessarily distinguish the two, as again, we are confident in and rely on our lex orandi, lex credendi. The Latin Church has often distanced and divorced the two into separate spheres of "theology" as you have illustrated. Liturgical abuses have certainly plagued the West to a substantially greater degree, as the last 40 years have amply demonstrated, perhaps a manifestation of this divorce. And not all Latins would agree with your dimishment of Quo Primum. Those who are strong advocates of the Latin Tridentine liturgy, both with and outside of communion with Rome, continually claim this as an "infallible" battle cry for the preservation of their liturgy. Frances, you are right. At least with the East, conciliarity lends authenticity. Personal proclamations have lesser weight.
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And there it is again, my favorite word, "conciliarity."
We keep coming back to it; that the Church, East and West, by definition is supposed to be conciliar.
In Christ,
Andrew
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Originally posted by Diak: John Paul II certainly has a good vision of what that authority was like., I believe [wishfully, of course]  he, John XIII, and Pius VI [you can throw in JPI], all post-Vatican II, in response to a desire for full reunification of East and West, have elected to let that teaching of Vatican I basically fall into disuse. John XIII and Pius VI??? antipopes of Vatican 2?
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 Thanks, Fr. Deacon, I forgot an "X" and should have clarified VII and post-VII era. Don't want any anti-popes around here. I did get to meet Pope Michael of Kansas on several occasions and even attended Pontifical Vespers once in the back of his bookstore in Belvue, Kansas.
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Originally posted by Diak:
Thanks, Fr. Deacon, I forgot an "X" and should have clarified VII and post-VII era. Don't want any anti-popes around here.
I did get to meet Pope Michael of Kansas on several occasions and even attended Pontifical Vespers once in the back of his bookstore in Belvue, Kansas. Huh? Now that one I hadn't heard of.
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Originally posted by Diak:
I did get to meet Pope Michael of Kansas on several occasions and even attended Pontifical Vespers once in the back of his bookstore in Belvue, Kansas. Originally posted by byzanTN:
Huh? Now that one I hadn't heard of. TN, See: Pope Michael [ popemichael.homestead.com] Many years, Neil
"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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What a joke!(But I suppose there are some in here who will defend him.
Stephanos I
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Originally posted by Amadeus:
While a papal document may contain infallible truths, the entire document is not infallible. Infallible truths are discerned by their conformity to the unchanging teachings of the Church.
Amado I believe that infallibility is also restricted to defining items of revealed faith (that is items of theology such as God is a Trinity, there are seven sacraments, Mary was a true mother of God.. Etc..). Very few things indeed. -ray
-ray
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