www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life The Christian East & West Eastern Catholic Mission work

Gordo:

I am just stating the reality, my friend. It's not "triumphalism."

I have not heard of an Eastern Catholic (or Orthodox) missionary butchered in the hinterlands of Indonesia or Borneo or in the African serengetis lately.

Have you?

We have the wherewithals, why can't Dan and other aspiring Byzantine missionaries simply say: can we join you? Or, can you help us?

My only beef with Dan is that to him nothing good would ever come out of a Latin or from the Latin Church.

What are we in communion for?

All I am saying is you do not have to re-invent the "wheel."


Amado

Gordo:

Shame on you! :p

That's not "mission work" you are doing. You are poaching on your own Catholic brothers and sisters.

It's worse: it's cannibalism!

There are so many Lutherans and other protestants to gobble up there, you should not be eyeing my easily pleased confreres!

Amado

Of course I admit it. The point of the thread is not to discuss RC missions. It is to discuss Eastern Catholic missions.

Dan L

Dan,

One has to wonder at your skill in finding a way to insinuate a cheap shot based on your personal dislike of a forum member into a thread completely unrelated to the one on which you exchanged disagreement with him. One can't help but wonder about the warmth you must convey to those you encounter in evangelizing.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,

Are you trying to offend me? I do not personally dislike Moe and people like him. I dislike our Churches inability to have a mission outreach. I know Moe only in that I was him when I was younger. He and many people in the Eastern Church need an outlet for their passion. From what I can discern the BC Church does not provide for that outlet.

You may be projecting your own feelings about Moe upon me. That is not fair. Claim your own feelings but don't foist them upon me.

Amado is rightly proud of the history of missionary work in the RC. I think that history is magnificent. I wish the BC's had some similar history. I wish people who are as passionate as Moe had an outlet.

Why would you try to create an enemy out of me when the only things we disagree on are a few political issues and those not very strongly? I hope you rethink your charge against me.

As for Moe, I rather like his passionate displays. At least he has some feeling to him. God can use that.

Dan L

PS I'm wondering if people think that mission work is somehow a bad thing. Did you think I was suggesting this because you believe I wanted to relegate Moe and others like him to outer darkness? If so I'd like to change your attitude toward mission work or at least help you understand that I think mission work is the highest form of an apostolate that exists. I applied three times to be a missionary with the UMC. I received the papers but though I wished desparately to go and after filling out the papers each time I couldn't bring myself to send them in. I didn't feel worthy.

Amado -

I agree wholeheartedly, as I said, with your broader point. In practice, however, collaboration is tipped in favor of the Latins, due in part to rules regarding the conversion of Protestants...after all, we know that they are all incipient Romans!

And I am NOT engaged in "poaching" or "cannibalism" of any sort. (My wife, who is a Latin, wholeheartedly agrees with me on this and actively supports our outreach.) I am merely helping to further the wish of our Holy Father that Latins become familiar with the traditions of the East. I think our communion, which you rightfully tout, is better served when both sides have a deeper understanding and appreciation for each other. And, I might add, it may help stem the growing tide of Romans, dissatisfied with the pervasive spiritual anemia of some (certainly not all) of their parishes, leaving full communion with Rome and converting to Orthodoxy. Your concerns re: our little effort here are no doubt sincere, but seriously misplaced.

And as to your comment about "easily pleased confreres", why do you suppose that is?

Look - come let us reason! The great missionary efforts and traditions of the West are and should be lauded. There is certainly much that can be learned from the RC's, the Protestants and the Orthodox re: mission work and the importance of sharing the Gospel. At the same time, our mission within the communion of Catholic churches is unique and any mission work should reflect that. As Dan has said, we have a tradition of mission work that can and should be revived.

Peace -

Gordo

Gordo,

I agree with you and I'm glad to note that you and your Church is involved in mission work. Annunciation is a little but I wish we were doing more. Pray for us that God will inspire us. This is not meant as a criticism of Father Loya. He is one of the best leaders I've ever known. He has led our Church into marvelous areas and every vibrant Church is a mission station in its own right. I just wish we supported more both within the US and beyond our borders. I suspect God is nudging me to do more.

Dan L

Amado, looking historically at Frs. Alexander Men (quite recently), Pavel Florensky, Blessed Exarch Leonid Federov, Klementy Sheptytsky, Theodore Romzha, etc. we don't have to travel to exotic places be brutally murdered or tortured while doing mission work.

I think we're a little off topic here, lads.

We really should focus on the here and now. What CAN we do here, in our own communities? Some people have made excellent suggestions, I like the portable iconostatis idea. I also thought the idea that we need more religious to do more charitable works, like the Latin religious. And, yes, in the past, the Latin church has not always been kind to the Byzantines, but we really need to worry about today and tomorrow, not yesterday.

A note on the Ukrainian church in Astoria: beautiful place, but they had a 10am English liturgy on their schedule, so I got there at like 9:50 or whatever, and it was the Epistle of the Ukrainian liturgy! I stayed and enjoyed my first Liturgy in Ukrainian... my Cyrillic is terrible, but I managed. beautiful choir, too. beautiful Ukrianian girls, too... sorry, now I'm off topic!

Do we have any mission work outside the USA that originates from the eparchies in the USA?

Dan L

Dan:

Catholic foreign missions emanating from the U.S. are under the auspices of the USCCB's Committee on World Mission which, in turn, works closely with the Holy See's Pontifical Mission Societies.

As to "home" missions, I see that the Ruthenians' Pittsburgh Archeparchy and the Eparchies of Parma and Van Nuys are 2003-04 grantees of funds for diocesan missionary and other related activities. (The Maronites, Melkites, Ukrainians, Syro-Malankaras, Syro-Malabars, and the Chaldeans are also enjoying the funding grants.)

I think, with an endorsement of Fr. Tom, you should represent your Anunciation parish and get a share of the funds from your eparchy. If not, assist in the renewal of the grant for 2004-05.

Amado

Amado,

Perhaps so to your last word of encouragement. But I'm more interested in us giving than receiving.

I'm very happy, as I've said, that the RCs are doing wondrous things in world mission. I still don't see any evidence that the ECs are, however, and that makes me troubled and sad.

Dan L

Shlomo Dan,

Perhaps you do not see it, because we do not advertise it so much. I myself have brought in 5 people to the Maronite Church. Further, my Church is the only Eastern Catholic Church, outside of the Ethiopian Catholic Church, that has African-American priests.

Poosh BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

post2_byzboard_2005_02_05

Hi, all. My name is John. I'm a Latin Rite Catholic, and I only have posted a few times at this website. However, I like to read it and I learn a lot from it because I love Eastern Christian spirituality.

That said, I can share an experience that might pertain to this topic.

This summer (June, 2004), I attended the Saturday vigil of the Divine Liturgy at the Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA. It is the center of the Ukrainian Catholic Church in the U.S.

Well, at this particular liturgy, there were about 30 people in attendance. That includes the priest and the cantor. The building easily could hold hundreds of people; yet, there were only 30.

Furthermore, almost everyone was old. Except for myself, the priest and (perhaps) the cantor, everyone seemed to be over the age of 65. Many seemed to be in their 70s or 80s. Some looked feeble. Most shockingly, there were no children. No babies. No toddlers. No adolescents. No teenagers. No youths. And, no middle-aged parents. Only the old were there.

Finally, everyone at the Liturgy was white (Caucasian). This was very odd because the surrounding neighborhood was African-American. I saw plenty of children, youths, parents, middle-aged people and so on in the surrounding neighborhood. But, I saw none of them in the cathedral that evening.

Now, maybe I just happened to attend Divine Liturgy there on the wrong day. Or, maybe everyone who attends that cathedral goes to Liturgy on Sunday morning. But, in my experiences at RC Masses, Saturday evening is a popular time to attend Liturgy for families -- especially families with children.

Frankly, I was in shock. The priest gave a good sermon; the cantor led the chanting well; the building is superbly beautiful; and so on; but no one was there except 27 old people, the priest, the cantor, and me.

I have seen the same kind of demographics during Divine Liturgy at two other Eastern Rite churches in the U.S. These were regular parishes, not cathedrals. One was in a Caucasian neighborhood of a city, and the other was in a rural area. In both cases, the people who attended the Liturgy were few and old.

Now, maybe I have had bad luck in attending Liturgy at communities which seem to be dying out. My data is limited, and my conclusions might be skewed.

Nevertheless, my impression from these experiences is that the Eastern Rites in the U.S. are in danger of dying out.

Furthermore, there seems to be a critical need for the Eastern Rites to evangelize the people and places in which Eastern Rite parishes are already located. I don't know if that's technically allowed under Catholic rules, but I doubt if there would be too many complaints if there were full churches and vibrant communities again.

Be well.

--John

With evangelization, it's easier to get forgiveness than permission. To borrow from a popular ad a few years ago, "just do it!" Rome can slap our wrists for sheep stealing or whatever they want to call it when the churches are full again. Who will care? But in all seriousness, I think we often get the people who are either not in church, or in great danger of leaving the church where they happen to be. If they come East and are happy, then good!